Julian Assange: rapist or not?

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Hallo Alfie said:
You deduce they have played the game before. :)
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Actually, that is when you realize that even though the hamburgers on the menu do not have caviar, that is not enough. You will require them to promise never to include caviar on your orders, and when they can't you will go on hunger strike and repeatably blame them for you being hungry. You will also point out that it's very easy to change the menu, but impossible to break a verbal promise. Finally you will mention to all and everybody that soon South-American fast food will rule the world and hamburgers will be the way of the past.


ETA:
And, to stay on topic:

Some statistics regard rape cases that actually is handled in the first level court in Sweden.

Year 2006: 22% not convicted
Year 2010: 33% not convicted
 
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About the Pinochet thing: it happened.

That, John, is the thing you have to get through your head. It happened. It is a past event.

Other things that happened include slavery in most of the world, mass genocide, inquisitions, religious wars and ten seasons of Full House.

All happened. All were terrible. All are noted in history books and in the memories of their victims. They can inform us as a piece of knowledge in how we conduct the present. That's all they can do.

Time, you see, moves inextricably in one direction only. Now you can gnash and wail about this, go seek out your own Doc Brown, invent the flux capacitor, turn a Delorean into a time machine and change some things or merely accept that the past is the past.

The Julian Assange thing, however, is very much the present. It is something we do have control over. It is something that can be done right even when so many other things were done wrong in the past.

And what is right is for him to go back to Sweden and answer for what he has done.
 
I've come to the conclusion that as much as I'd love to see Julian Assange in prison for rape, him staying in the embassy of a fifth-rate regional semi-power in London for the next few months is a good second place.
 
BenBurch said:
I'm hoping he spends a VERY long time in his chosen prison.
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He will not.
Fortunately enough the US elite and the stupid US population can not influence South American countries anymore.
And even a small country like Ecuador can successfully stand on their way.

Travis said:
About the Pinochet thing: it happened.
That, John, is the thing you have to get through your head. It happened. It is a past event.
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Tried to reply on this but got my posts moved.
If you wish, you can move this discussion on a separate thread.
 
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Hallo Alfie said:
Why? His 'chosen prison' is the Equadorian embassy. When will he get away from there do you think?
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This is not a prison, he is doing much better than the 2 millions American now behind bars.
And he made it to deliver his message to people, a major blow to the US and international elite that would have been punished by death, had he done that only a few years ago.

Hallo Alfie said:
Isn't the embassy in London?
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Yes, but London counts nothing.
The UK is the puppy dog of the US

Hallo Alfie said:
But can they send him on his way. :)
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There are 47 millions smarty Americans on food stamps today and another 2 millions behind bars (mostly blacks for minor offenses). http://www.thepelicanpost.org/2012/10/09/record-47-million-americans-now-receive-food-stamps/
China` s economy is growing 10% year-to-year while the US is not even coming back now at the level before the crisis.
When the US will have another 10-15 million people on food stamps and another 1-2 millions behind bars, with the economy getting worse than today, the not-so-smart people may realize that Assange is not and was not the problem.
Or maybe not.
 
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John Mekki said:
This is not a prison,
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So he can leave anytime he likes?
Perhaps some of the nuances of the English language are alien to you; the phrase 'prison of his choosing' was lost in translation.

If not, does the word 'whoosh' mean anything to you?

John Mekki said:
Yes, but London counts nothing.
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Whoosh.
You said that the South American states could not be influenced by the US. Correct me if I am wrong, but the embassy ('prison of his choosing') my Australian countryman has fled to is in London, not the US.

John Mekki said:
The UK is the puppy dog of the US
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Woof woof.
Last time I checked, London was in England and they are a free nation with their own laws, their own parliament, sovereignty, values and consequently they will make their own decisions. They will do what they think right.

And I hope this pissant Assange will get everything he deserves if proven guilty of rape.
 
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John Mekki said:
He will not.
Fortunately enough the US elite and the stupid US population can not influence South American countries anymore.
And even a small country like Ecuador can successfully stand on their way.
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Stand in their way of what? Other than in the vapid imaginations of Assange and his blind followers, the US hasn't done anything. Everything that has happened to Assange is totally of his own making.
 
Wudang said:
Ah so that's why JA is so desperate to stay here instead of Sweden.
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In the Ecuadorean embassy.
We are quite desperate not to admit the evidence, right?

PhantomWolf said:
Stand in their way of what? Other than in the vapid imaginations of Assange and his blind followers, the US hasn't done anything. Everything that has happened to Assange is totally of his own making.
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Sure.
And Saddam had relevant quantities of WMDs.
And Iran is making nuclear weapons.
And Assange is wanted for rape or kind-of.
And the world is a flat.
And the moon is made of cheese.
And..
 
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Captain_Swoop said:
Still no reason given as to why the US couldn't have extradited him from the UK.
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There is a reason, which is that he is not wanted for a crime in the USA. But for JA supporters to admit that they would have to admit that he is hiding behind the fact that he has pissed off the USA in order to avoid facing accusations of rape.
 
John Mekki said:
In the Ecuadorean embassy.
We are quite desperate not to admit the evidence, right?
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he was desperate to stay in the UK rather than Sweden before he hid in the Embassy. He only fled to he embassy because he was told he had no other way to stay in the UK (and avoid going to Sweden). Why is he desperate to stay in the UK (where it is easier for him to be extradited to the USA if the USA ever find anything that they can and want to charge him with), rather then going to Sweden where his extradition would be harder?
 
PhantomWolf said:
Everything that has happened to Assange is totally of his own making.
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yes and no. I am quite happy to believe that both Sweden and the UK have paid more attention to dealing with these accusations than they may have done if
1) the accused wasn't so high profile
2) He hadn't pissed off so many western governments so much

That is not to say that he is being unjustly treated, I don't think that anyone should be able to use their rich and powerful friends and celebrity status to evade facing criminal accusations.
 
brodski said:
rather then going to Sweden where his extradition would be harder?
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[..]as Sweden never once denied a US extradition request since 2000.[..]
http://notesonwikileaks.tumblr.com/post/15251907983/assange-extradition-fact-sheet

Yawn..
Why is it so hard to convince educated minds that they have been brainwashed?

I still remember the battles on that Iranian forum, they really thought that there were no gas chambers in Auschwitz. No matter how many evidence, it was always a plot by the West and the Jews.

Getting tired by "true believers"
 
John Mekki said:
[..]as Sweden never once denied a US extradition request since 2000.[..]
http://notesonwikileaks.tumblr.com/post/15251907983/assange-extradition-fact-sheet

Yawn..
Why is it so hard to convince educated minds that they have been brainwashed?

I still remember the battles on that Iranian forum, they really thought that there were no gas chambers in Auschwitz. No matter how many evidence, it was always a plot by the West and the Jews.

Getting tired by "true believers"
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It's very simple. If JA is in the UK and the USA wants to extradite then only teh UK has to giver permission.
If JA goes to Sweden on an EAW and the US wants to extradite then both Sweden and the UK need to give permission.

No matter how many times Sweden has or hasn't extradited to the USA it would be harder for the USA to extradite him if he was there rather than in the UK.

Yet JA fought tooth and nail to stay in the UK, where he was at greater risk of extradition to the USA, rather than going to Sweden where he would be at less risk. Why?

ETA: Oh and given JA's hilarious phone call to Ian Hisslop I really wouldn't bring up anti-semitic conspiracy theories in relation to this matter, even in passing.
 
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I'm not sure that this has been noted before, but this is another issue with extraditing Assange from Sweden...

Article IV

(1) Subject to the provisions of paragraph (2) of this Article, extradition shall be granted in respect of an extraditable offense committed outside the territorial jurisdiction of the requesting State if:

(a) the courts of the requested State would be competent to exercise jurisdiction in similar circumstances; or
(b) the person sought is a national of the requesting State.

(2) Extradition may be refused for an offense which has been committed within the territorial jurisdiction of the requested State, when that State takes all possible measures in accordance with its own laws to prosecute [*6] the person claimed.

(3) The words "territorial jurisdiction" as used in this Article and in Article I of this Convention mean: territory, including territorial waters, and the airspace thereover, belonging to or under the control of one of the Contracting States; and vessels and aircraft belonging to one of the Contracting States or to a citizen or corporation thereof when such vessel is on the high seas or
such aircraft is over the high seas.
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For those a little slower, this would mean that the if the US ever decided to ask for Assange to be extradited from Sweden, they'd first have to prove that they had territorial jurisdiction over the place he commited said crime, or failing that, that Sweden would be willing to extradite for the same crime. So not only would they have to prove that the crime he was accused of was a crime in both states, requiring over two years in jail, that it wasn't a political crime and that there would be no death penalty, but they'd have to show that they indeed held territorial jurisdiction over that crime. And on top of that, they'd still need the UK's permission, or if they wanted to skip that part, have to give him 46 days to get out of the country before refiling.

But hey, according to some, this is all easier than just sending him straight from the UK, lap dog of the US.
 
brodski said:
Yet JA fought tooth and nail to stay in the UK, where he was at greater risk of extradition to the USA, rather than going to Sweden where he would be at less risk. Why?
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I am not repeating the same explanation over and over.
If you wish to think that the US Government is not involved in this and the fact that the UK Government threatened to get into the Embassy of Ecuador only be cause they want to bring an alleged sex-offender to "justice" feel free to do it.
You may find interesting also to read (and believe) the stories about the Moster of Lochness, the Shroud of Turin and stories about UFO as well.
Please be my guest.
 
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