The crucifixion of Jesus Christ

[Astreja]

How does one discern fact from fiction? Well, for starters, how well does it agree with the world that we can observe around us, right now?

Fact: The Romans installed regional authorities in the territories they had conquered.

Fiction: Pontius Pilate was a golem that Jesus made out of clay. Golems are mythical creatures.

Fact: Passover in the springtime. (This is when the Jewish community actually celebrates it, which should be a Really Big Clue.)

Fiction: Passover in the summer, on the basis of some young man in a book of mythology wearing lightweight clothing.

Fact: The Romans executed people.

Fiction: The Romans felled and dressed one particular tree (grown from seeds brought from Heaven by the Virgin Mary) to crucify one particular individual, nailing him "symmetrically" rather than just tying him up with rope. The nails subsequently travelled to Paris via the sea, and one of them wound up in 2 different holy relic exhibits simultaneously.

Fact: Nuclear weapons exist.

Fiction: A nuclear strike will kill 10 men for every woman but leave the ecosystem pristine, such that one can safely walk outside after 3 days in a house sealed against "smoke" and get a free house and a harem of 10 widows.

Pure bollocks: Despite the fact that "the one true god" (sic) is supposedly powerless to prevent a nuclear war, it somehow managed to pull off exactly such a stunt specifically for the purpose of allowing more people to come to belief.

Also pure bollocks: "The one true god," supposedly the only entity capable of accurate prophesy, not only gets all its prophesies wrong -- It cannot even foresee itself stopping a nuclear war to buy more time for prospective believers.

Anyone up for a new thread or poll entitled "The Lies of Ama"? :-D

 

[pakeha]

What is your proof that the picture you posted was taken during “passover in April in Israel”? Remember what the only true God said in His Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:16): “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”

He said that what you have done to your neighbor, you have done to God.

PC, what possible reason do you have to imagine it isn't warm in Jerusalem at Passover?

Yes, I believe in the Holy Bible. It came from the only true God. ...

PC, it is very difficult to take your declaration very seriously.
I have the impression that throughout your posts you consistently place more weight on the revelations of a medium than the bible.

...Are all literary works in the ancient world fictional? If not, which are not? ...

PC, of course not.
Literature in the Roman times included even cook-books!
There are books of geography, poetry, history, memoirs, travel guides, in fact, just about anything you can imagine.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

This is a new departure - challenging the veracity of evidence.

Well PC, you could do what I just did; right-click on the picture and look up its properties. That gives the following link:

http://www.imagesofmythoughts.com/News/20120405-Jonathan-Pollard

Does that help?

Exif data concurs as to the date. Image data concurs as to the location. What you got? Nothing. Yet here you are trying your best to bear false witness. Apologies are in order.

Thank you, Jack by the hedge, for showing that the photo was taken in Israel on 2012-04-05 on the eve of Passover. That was during the day. Just remember, Jack by the hedge, abaddon, and others, to always say the truth.

Ama said that if what is being said is true, why do you get angry? It is true anyway. If what is being said is false, why do you get angry? It is false anyway. You reason out.

Ama further said that you cannot say that you are right by being angry, by making your eyes big, or by raising your voice.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

How do you do it in the modern world? It's just the same, though you need to look a little deeper.

You do it by comparing the story to what is known from other sources about the event and the time frame, and by looking at the things claimed. For example, if the story contains things which contravene everything we know about the natural world, such as dragons or talking animals, it's a fairly safe bet that the story is fiction.

Ama's revelation of August 17 does NOT match the Bible. It is in direct contravention of all the commands in Leviticus relating to Passover (which states that Passover must be kept in Spring) and it is in direct contravention to the story of the fig tree (the whole point of that particular story is that the fig tree was not bearing figs at that time, as it was Spring).

It is warm enough in Spring in Israel to wear nothing but a linen cloth, as you've been told numerous times, and you've been shown a photograph and several temperature charts in support of this.

There is nothing other than Ka Apaz/Ama's pronouncement to support a summer date for the crucifixion (even supposing arguendo that the crucifixion occurred at all). Your contention that the Jews used two calendars has no evidence whatsoever to support it.

Which stories in the ancient world are fiction and which are not?

God said in Exodus 12:2: “This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.” Did God specify which calendar the Israelites were to use? What are the kinds of calendars did the Egyptians use? Did the Egyptians use a lunisolar calendar? When the Israelites were in the Sinai Peninsula, did they know the flooding of the Nile River? Did they perform planting and harvest to know the seasons? Why is it mentioned in the books of Moses “in the first month” and not in Abib? How did the Israelites reckon the passage of time? How come that in 1 Kings 6:1, it says “four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt”?

Why is it Mark 11:13 says “a fig tree afar off having leaves”? When does a fig tree have leaves? Doesn’t the fig tree shed its leaves in winter and grow buds in spring? Is it warm or cold in Jerusalem (elevation about 700 m) in evening? The temperatures in Jerusalem are: March – 7-15 degrees C; April - 9-22 degrees C.

 

[Meadmaker]

Why is it Mark 11:13 says “a fig tree afar off having leaves”? When does a fig tree have leaves? Doesn’t the fig tree shed its leaves in winter and grow buds in spring?

Isn't google available all year round, to provide answers to questions such as this?

From several minutes of google search, the time of the year when a fig tree would have leaves, but no fruit, would be right around Passover. However, and this is important, this assumes that Passover occurred at roughly the same time every year, near the Spring equinox.

Let him who has eyes, see. Let him with ears, hear. Let him with a keyboard, google, and learn.

 

[AdMan]

Just remember, Jack by the hedge, abaddon, and others, to always say the truth.

Says the poster who LIED to the members of this forum when he said he would denounce Ama/Ka Apaz as a false prophet if the Olympic Games prediction failed to come true and that he would stop discussing her prophecies on the Internet.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Yes, I believe in the Holy Bible. It came from the only true God. ...

PeaceCrusader, here is a list of Gods who are leaders of their pantheons. Which one of these is the True God?

Australian Aboriginal pantheon: Baiame
Algonquin pantheon: Gitche Manitou
Ashanti pantheon: Nyame
Aztec pantheon: Quetzalcoatl
Canaanite pantheon: Hadad
Celtic pantheon: Dagda
Chinese pantheon: Shangdi
Dahomey pantheon: Nana Buluku
Egyptian pantheon: Horus
Finnic pantheon: Ukko
Germanic pantheon: Týr
Greek pantheon: Zeus
Guarani pantheon: Tupa
Haida pantheon: Raven
Hindu pantheon: Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu
Hittite pantheon: Arinna or Teshub
Hopi pantheon: Angwusnasomtaka
Inca pantheon: Inti
Inuit pantheon: Anguta or Anigu (but only among the Greenlandic Inuit)
Japanese pantheon: Izanagi
Latin pantheon: Janus
Lakota pantheon: Inyan
Lusitanian pantheon: Endovelicus
Māori pantheon: Tāne
Mayan pantheon: Hunab Ku
Mesopotamian pantheon: Marduk
Miwok pantheon: Coyote
Mongolian pantheon: Tengri
Nabatean pantheon: Dushara
Norse pantheon: Odin
Persian pantheon: Ahura Mazda
Pre-Monotheistic Jewish pantheon: Yahweh
Sami pantheon: Beaivi
Slavic pantheon: Perun
Yoruba pantheon: Olorun

Source: Wikipedia, King of the Gods

 

[Astreja]

Which stories in the ancient world are fiction and which are not?

That's easy: If it defies known scientific principles, it's more likely fiction than not. In other words, golems and magic nails and magic boats and Talking Snakes™ and a virgin birth with male offspring and people coming back from the dead are almost certainly fiction.

But even if something does meet the common sense test, there's still a chance that it's fiction. For instance, a book could speak of a battle that never happened or a marketplace that never existed.

The temperatures in Jerusalem are: March – 7-15 degrees C; April - 9-22 degrees C.

In My experience, anything above about 14-15°C is shirtsleeve weather. 22°C is generally the highest I run My furnace from October-March; normally it's a couple of degrees cooler than that.

I also happen to possess a very nice white linen robe, Aristeo. It's quite comfortable, all the more so because it has a lining. Yes, a garment can have multiple layers and is not necessarily a single layer of cloth! I've worn this particular robe for prolonged periods in late October, while standing in My front yard handing out candy... In temperatures in the 6-8°C range. Disclaimer: My genetic makeup is 50% Scandinavian, 50% Scot, and I've lived in Winnipeg (Home of the 80°C temperature range!) for 35 years. March in Jerusalem is positively balmy.

And then there's bottomweight linen, the heavy stuff. So stop it with the "Linen, therefore August" nonsense.

 

[Astreja]

Says the poster who LIED to the members of this forum when he said he would denounce Ama/Ka Apaz as a false prophet if the Olympic Games prediction failed to come true and that he would stop discussing her prophecies on the Internet.

Indeed. Aristeo, after you publicly reneged on your promise to denounce Ka Apaz, you are simply not in a position to lecture anyone on the subject of truth.

You are an oathbreaker. You are not worthy of our trust.

And I think we have every reason to be angry with you. Anger is a legitimate emotion, and I don't give a rodent's rectum what the evil make-believe god "Ama" has to say. Ama is a complete and utter failure, both in morality and veracity, and you cannot make the demonstrably false nonsense blatherings of Ka Apaz less false just by repeating them over and over again.

I think the best things you could do for yourself right now are...

1. Post an unqualified apology to the JREF members for lying to us.
2. Throw yourself upon the mercy of whatever true god may be out there, and beg its forgiveness for publicly associating it with a false prophet.
3. Delete the entire contents of your website, destroy all backups, and garble the password so that you can't change your mind and put the site up again.
4. Refuse all e-mails and phone calls and letters from anyone related to the Ka Apaz cult.
5. Enrol in a critical thinking course.

 

[Shiner]

“I did not get the date from thin air.

You say this, then go on with,

Ama revealed that Jesus died on August 17 which I heard in 1983.

Which actually means this,

“I did not get the date from thin air.

Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader
Which stories in the ancient world are fiction and which are not?

You've obviously identified a few from the Bible that you think are fictional.

I just checked if there is any ring of truth in it sixteen years after. Four years later of study, in 2003, I say that the date is true and correct.”

I think all of my claims in the August 17 revelation of Ama fit what the Holy Bible says except Pentecost in Acts 2:1 which I believe should be the Feast of Tabernacles.

PC, do you think Greek mythology is factual?

Originally Posted by PeaceCrusader
Just remember, Jack by the hedge, abaddon, and others, to always say the truth.

And how's that working out for you?

If what is being said is false, why do you get angry? It is false anyway. You reason out.

And how's that working out for you?

 

[pakeha]

Thank you, Jack by the hedge, for showing that the photo was taken in Israel on 2012-04-05 on the eve of Passover. That was during the day. Just remember, Jack by the hedge, abaddon, and others, to always say the truth. ...

Hi, PC.
Isn't it fantastic what we can learn with the internet?
While lies and rumours spread like wildfire over the web, it also gives us the means to learn the truth about a lot of things.
For example, about Angelina Imden.
We know there was never a Helene Curtis fortune for her to inherit.
We know there is no location in the UK 8 hours from a city.


We also know there was never a st Evangeline.
We can substantiate when Passover is celebrated.
When fig trees are in leaf.

Did you read the recent test done in the UK with two women who have successful careers as mediums?
There's a thread on the subject here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246817

PC, there is no reason to remain in thrall to these fantasies.

 

[erwinl]

Hi, PC.
Isn't it fantastic what we can learn with the internet?
While lies and rumours spread like wildfire over the web, it also gives us the means to learn the truth about a lot of things.
For example, about Angelina Imden.
We know there was never a Helene Curtis fortune for her to inherit.
We know there is no location in the UK 8 hours from a city.
We also know there was never a st Evangeline.
We can substantiate when Passover is celebrated.
When fig trees are in leaf.

Did you read the recent test done in the UK with two women who have successful careers as mediums?
There's a thread on the subject here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246817

PC, there is no reason to remain in thrall to these fantasies.

Now, now.
That might not necessarily be true.
The only issue is to choose the right location (Inverness) and the right city (only London would do obviously).
According to my satnav, that would take about eight hours to travel.

Aside from that.
yeah. It's bollocks.

 

[pakeha]

Point taken.
Obviously, London IS the only city.
And I neglected to take into account traffic/weather conditions- imagine a giantess behind the wheel of a lorry loaded with corpses stuck on a fog-bound M6.

 

[Craig B]

Now, now.
That might not necessarily be true.
The only issue is to choose the right location (Inverness) and the right city (only London would do obviously).
According to my satnav, that would take about eight hours to travel.

Aside from that.
yeah. It's bollocks.

Super bollocks. Inverness is not eight hours from a city. Inverness IS a city. Wiki

In 2001 city status was granted to the Town of Inverness, and letters patent were taken into the possession of the Highland Council by the convener of the Inverness area committee.

 

[erwinl]

Super bollocks. Inverness is not eight hours from a city. Inverness IS a city. Wiki

Details, details

 

[pakeha]

Wiki, schmiki.
We all know what an Inverness is!


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Craig B]

Wiki, schmiki.
We all know what an Inverness is!
[qimg]http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4223/inverness1.jpg[/qimg]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Looks as if he's buying a London-Inverness rail ticket. By the way, a typical journey time is 8 hours 8 minutes! Makes you think, doesn't it?

 

[pakeha]

Bravo, bravissimo.
I'm going to console myself with a Basil Rathbone marathon.

 

[Akuma Tennou]

PeaceCrusader, here is a list of Gods who are leaders of their pantheons. Which one of these is the True God?
Japanese pantheon: Izanagi

Source: Wikipedia, King of the Gods

humm i don't know about the others, but izanagi is "only" one of the two creators of the universe (the article should have cited both izanagi and izanami). the leader of the pantheon is the goddess Amaterasu.

 

[Stomatopoda]

But Izanagi has an awesome armored codpiece, so he wins.

Does Ama have an armored codpiece? No? Thought so.