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Bigfoot: The Patterson Gimlin Film - Part 3

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AlaskaBushPilot said:
See how the conversation has now diverted so long from the first assertion about having inside information on the PGF suit? Just an accident, surely. ;)

I sincerely accept the honest offer for coffee, this is the truth I swear, and invite the poster to my cabin tomorrow at 4 pm for same. An FYI for now though - you're on ignore after this post because the most effective way to win is not to play. The moderators are volunteers and their time should be respected.

I didn't know how to read Kitakaze's announcement. Had it been attended with the details that Odin supplied, it would have been much more compelling. I have never agreed with Odin and have never seen the point of exchanging with him but this was the first post of his I took notice of. I can see why he would want to pre-empt part of the thunder and possibly even cause a headache that results in a rift with the source. The story is plausible, WAY more so than that whacky story about trying to get it through Canada for a prank and then losing it.

I don't think there is danger in losing the suit. DeAtley is obviously very proud of pulling it off, and it was pretty amazing for sure. You can see in Long's interview how giddy he was over it, and who wouldn't be with pouring garbage cans full of cash all over themselves on these road shows. Putting it behind a glass case more or less makes it a shrine for him.

So this isn't something he is going to get rid of. It is more likely something he won't mind being released after he passes away, in the way the Wallace Stompers were. If someone came along with enough money that might do too.

In all, I am inclined to feel better about the whole thing in the long run. I don't know enough about whatever KK has announced over at BFF. Having Munns involved is pretty humorous. WTF. I hadn't heard that, but I don't post over there.
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Well I pretty much ignore your posts too. Cheers. :D
 
tube!

We've never formally met, but I ran across your site back as a BFF member and have sited it extensively when debating footers about dermal ridges as plaster artifacts, as well as your articles on shin angles and other PGF stuff.

you do fine work sir, kudos!:Banane35:
 
Óðinn said:
Well I pretty much ignore your posts too. Cheers. :D
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Cheers back at ya!

My google ranger skills resulted in a BFF poster who sounded so much like you that I take it you have a different name there. No biggie, and not necessary to answer but I wanted to learn more about this person who worked at Al DeAtleys house and saw the suit, then posted on "old" BFF, then was contacted by KK, then took a picture.

Al DeAtley Jr. is actually the Al DeAtley who financed and produced the PGF. He also has a son Alan.

The estrangement was apparently over the elder DeAtley refusing to participate in a scam:


http://http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2010/10/11/son-of-yakima-paving-mogul-faces-charges-in-sales-ploy

I can't find more information after Oct 2010 when this younger Alan was being held on $250,000 bail. He faced 25 counts on racketeering and fraud. The elder had not talked to the son for 7-8 years by 2010. So it does not seem likely this is any access to the suit.

It seems more likely this fellow who did work at our elder DeAtley's mansion is the contact, and he's not able to just waltz in there. So did this guy see the suit and then join BFF to tell people what he saw? It seems pretty crazy that did not make more of a splash. I'd like to know more about this...
 
tube said:
At about 51 minutes into this video Rene Dahinden discusses the timeline given by Grover Krantz regarding the "documentary" trackway fabricated by Patterson prior to the Bluff Creek footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m16fdfMH_b4&feature=g-upl&noredirect=1

The presentation by Dahinden is largely a criticism of Grover Krantz and the evidence provided by Paul Freeman.
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Excellent posts and finds recently tube. I take interest in this one because of the mention of the Krantz statement in his book about Patterson making fake tracks and making a film of it. I think Dahinden is counting on the timelime Patterson told him being accurate. Certainly is interesting, considering Krantz felt it important enough to document in his book. McClarins lost 8mm sure could shed some light upon this. Apparently there could have been others with film or cameras at the site along with Green and McClarin. Would be nice to see some of these films tthat are mentioned turn up.

To date, the only footage I've seen of Patterson making a cast was the footage he released along with the PGF (claiming it as "reel 2" footage) documenting the tracks allegedly made by the film subject.
 
In the video tube posted, I wanted to point this part out specifically for future reference. Note: Meldrum backs a lot of Freemans tracks as well. Listen to Dahinden describe them. Note that Meldrum also sells cast copies.
 
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DozingConsciously said:
Got to be honest here, but I've recently felt as if the KK thing risked becoming a skeptical equivalent of various iterations of Meldrum / Ketchum's DNA waiting-for-Godot act. "It'll be here soon" where soon == never.

To be frank, I'm not holding my breath, not least because, while it would be a nice end neatly tied up, it's never been necessary to the argument. I'm more sure of the fact that there is (or once was) a suit out there somewhere to be found than that there is an undiscovered biped walking the forests of North America, but that doesn't mean that either are likely to turn up.

If it does, cool, but it'd be a bonus rather than a game-changer, IMO.
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I've been skeptical from the beginning. Like you, I have my doubts that KK will ever produce the suit.
 
Thanks tube.
If you watch til the end, you will see neo-squatcher Jeff Meldrum.
The video was from 1996, probably after Meldrum's first encounter with Krantz, with Krantz' collection of Freeman casts, and with Freeman himself in February of that year. By that time Freeman had been in the Bigfoot game for ten years. In his talk Dahinden criticizes Krantz for accepting the many diverse Freeman casts as authentic. Note that Meldrum is in the audience and is defensive regarding Freeman and Krantz.
 
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Skeptical Greg said:
Óðinn posted on the 'old' BFF as Gigantofootecus ..

Don't know if that is his current user name there..
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That was what google came up with.

It is this guy "Brent D" who is the worker that saw the glass case and took the photo. Not sure if that is a complete name or whatever. I think I had a user name there once but don't remember who I was, just senseless to post there I figured. But it is the "Old" BFF which I don't even know is available or not.

Geez, I have a difficult time understanding Dahinden. But he seems to like the Bluff Creek Casts and thinks that sets some kind of standard.
 
StankApe said:
tube!

We've never formally met, but I ran across your site back as a BFF member and have sited it extensively when debating footers about dermal ridges as plaster artifacts, as well as your articles on shin angles and other PGF stuff.

you do fine work sir, kudos!:Banane35:
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Thank you, that's very kind.

I did most of this stuff a number of years ago. One of the great surprises for me was realizing that notions in Bigfootery that were believed by "experts" were often wrong; sometimes spectacularly so. Concepts that had been believed for 40 years could be tested and debunked in a half an hour on a sandy beach with a photographer.

For a time, I was one of those people who was "on the fence" about the issue. The final straw was the elucidation of the Skookum Elk cast, as I knew these people personally. To see how deeply they were either mistaken or simply lying utterly shattered my belief that these "researchers" might be onto something.
 
tube said:
The final straw was the elucidation of the Skookum Elk cast, as I knew these people personally. To see how deeply they were either mistaken or simply lying utterly shattered my belief that these "researchers" might be onto something.
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Tube,

Do you know Rick Noll? IIRC, it was Noll who convinced everyone an elk arse was a BF body. Personally, I think Noll knew it was an elk arse from the beginning. If not Noll, who did you know? I have reached the point when it comes to all things BF, a person is presumed guilty of lying until proven innocent.
 
BF'ers are full of cra## until they show the monkey ! Otherwise they are still full of BF !

It is about scientific evidence, proof and common sense.
 
clayflingythingy said:
Tube,

Do you know Rick Noll? IIRC, it was Noll who convinced everyone an elk arse was a BF body. Personally, I think Noll knew it was an elk arse from the beginning. If not Noll, who did you know? I have reached the point when it comes to all things BF, a person is presumed guilty of lying until proven innocent.
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Here is a video of the "discovery".
 
clayflingythingy said:
Tube,

Do you know Rick Noll? IIRC, it was Noll who convinced everyone an elk arse was a BF body. Personally, I think Noll knew it was an elk arse from the beginning. If not Noll, who did you know? I have reached the point when it comes to all things BF, a person is presumed guilty of lying until proven innocent.
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Yes, I knew Noll, as well as Owen Caddy, who claimed to see scrotal impressions of a male Sasquatch in the cast.

Noll is certainly skillful as a photographer and has solid knowledge of proper casting technique. He has professional grade video equipment, and the knowledge of how to use it properly. He's not a backwoods bozo like Paul Freeman. He's intelligent, and has enough of a veneer of technical sophistication to sway the rubes and goobs on Bigfoot Forums.

Since Chilcutt put dermal ridges on Noll's elk cast, I think it became incumbent for Noll to defend Chilcutt. For whatever reason, Noll and his groupie plaster caster at the time engaged in a campaign of libel against me on Bigfoot Forums. Because Seattle Pottery Supply sells their pumice in paper bags labeled "Volcanic Ash" Noll and his groupie declared to the world that I had committed Federal crimes. No, I'm not making this up.

Noll declared I needed a "walking stick" to "re-create the stride of the Patterson film." Complete fabrication and nonsense. Noll would make an excellent used car salesman, as the way he frames things are always ~just so~. His comments always include just enough ambiguity so that he always has an "out." He's very good at ~implying~ things, rather than stating them overtly. You see this in his recent confabulation of HUMAN dermal ridges found in the Elbe tracks with purported Bigfoot tracks, which have not yet been shown to contain such alleged textures.

Noll is clearly an Alpha Squatcher, with virtual immunity to make false allegations on Bigfoot Forums. The owner of the forum has publicly applauded Noll for being a superior "researcher." Noll now has some very important status as part of a "Steering Committee" on Bigfoot Forums.

Many skeptics end up getting death threats. My work evidently never rose to that level, but it was certainly disconcerting to be the victim of obvious libel. For me, the "culture" of Bigfoot Forums is not to be trusted, and I have not posted there in years.

But this I'm afraid is a derail from discussion of the Patterson film.
 
Tube-
Didn't Noll try to trick you into doing a walk for one of the documentaries?

What was the story with that?
 
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