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James Randi letter to Daredevil

Ethan Thane Athen

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Ethan Thane Athen
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Mar 1, 2007
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Was reading a newly acquired copy of Daredevil #137 (from September 1976 - http://marvel.wikia.com/Daredevil_Vol_1_137) the other day and lo and behold, first up on the letters page was a letter from Mr Randi himself bemoaning their use of, and credence given to, Uri Geller in a previous issue (#133 see http://marvel.wikia.com/Daredevil_Vol_1_133http://www.comicvine.com/uri-geller/29-35731/). A certain Mark Evanier (quite big in comic circles) also wrote in to criticise.

What was also interesting was the letters posted to counteract these criticisms and endorse Geller (though it seemed they may have been provided by Geller himself - the way it was laid out wasn't clear) all from supposed scientists and used by Marv Wolfman, the writer / editor of the comic (along with his personal experience of meeting Geller, recounted in the letters page of #133) to counter the criticism. It would be interesting to know if the following (and indeed Marv Wolfman), stand by their backing of Geller today:

John G Taylor, PhD, Dept of Mathematics, Kings College, University of London;

John Hasted, PhD, Department of Physics, Birkbeck College, University of London;

Wilbur Franklin, PhD, Kent State University Physics Department, Kent, Ohio.

As always, kudos to Marvel for printing letters that criticise them.

Anyway, not necessarily looking for responses, just thought others may find it as interesting (and nostalgic) as I did...
 
Daredevil #133, the actual Geller story, is reprinted on Geller's website here:

http://www.uri-geller.com/daredev.htm

With Wolfman's text explaining how he became a believer.

Mark Evanier is one of the good guys, he wrote about Randi here:

http://www.povonline.com/2002/News041202.htm#041202

And click on his link to his Peter Hurkos (the Psychic Detective) story. It's one of the funniest things anyone has ever written on the interweb ever.
 
Croydon Bob said:
Daredevil #133, the actual Geller story, is reprinted on Geller's website here:

http://www.uri-geller.com/daredev.htm

With Wolfman's text explaining how he became a believer.

Mark Evanier is one of the good guys, he wrote about Randi here:

http://www.povonline.com/2002/News041202.htm#041202

And click on his link to his Peter Hurkos (the Psychic Detective) story. It's one of the funniest things anyone has ever written on the interweb ever.
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Aye, I've got an almost complete set of his (Marvel) Groo books.
 
Interesting. Has Geller copyright permission from Marvel to show that full comic on his site? I doubt it. Not even a copyright statement.

I've just got Evanier's Book on Jack Kirby. He seems a decent custodian of the his legacy, along with his family.
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
Aye, I've got an almost complete set of his (Marvel) Groo books.
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Then perhaps we should call Wolfman a mendicant and you should define "mulch"?

Rrose Selavy said:
Interesting. Has Geller copyright permission from Marvel to show that full comic on his site? I doubt it. Not even a copyright statement.
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I wondered that. And Marvel are now owned by Disney who are one of the most litigious organisations in the world. Disney v Geller smackdown!
 
Croydon Bob said:
Then perhaps we should call Wolfman a mendicant and you should define "mulch"?
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:D

Croydon Bob said:
I wondered that. And Marvel are now owned by Disney who are one of the most litigious organisations in the world. Disney v Geller smackdown!
Click to expand...

Marvel originally allowed people to exchange electronic scans of their old comics - though that is different to publishing them on a website. Once they brought their own electronic comic stuff out they changed their tune a bit - though more to just not approving rather than actually doing anything about it (which is good since the fan done stuff was often of better quality, was in a more flexible format (cbr, cbz rather than pdf) and was way more extensive and complete.... er, so I hear!). Not sure if the subsequent acquisition by Disney has altered that further... As I say though, that's very different from publishing it on a website.
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
Was reading a newly acquired copy of Daredevil #137 (from September 1976 - http://marvel.wikia.com/Daredevil_Vol_1_137) the other day and lo and behold, first up on the letters page was a letter from Mr Randi himself bemoaning their use of, and credence given to, Uri Geller in a previous issue (#133 see http://marvel.wikia.com/Daredevil_Vol_1_133http://www.comicvine.com/uri-geller/29-35731/). A certain Mark Evanier (quite big in comic circles) also wrote in to criticise.
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One of the things I love and admire most about Mr. Randi is his uncompromising challenge to any con-artist or example of fraud or malevolent trickery. Now thirty-five years later, he is still at it. No matter that it was a comic book, like you said, it gave credence to Geller's antics, so Mr. Randi sent a letter to set the record straight. While many of us would have put our faces in our palms in resignation years ago, Mr. Randi has kept at it. Whoever claims heros are hard to find these days has obviously not met Mr. Randi :)
 
Hasted is, as I recall, the remarkably credulous physicist who wrote a book called The Metal Benders. He experimented with children a great deal, since children "wouldn't cheat"....

I actually read the thing, and I believe (it's been a while) that Martin Gardner wrote an article dissecting the book.
Among the wonders found by Hasted was that his children couldn't perform while being observed... They only produced results when allowed to work with the test items alone. He dubbed this the "shyness effect".....

I recall one of the experiments involving the children trying to bend metal wires inside a glass sphere. They couldn't do it. Perhaps the glass resisted their psychic powers? So, in order to allow the magical whatevers to flow, he allowed a small hole in the sphere.
Amazingly, the children (in secret of course) could now "scrunch" the bits of wire.
Hasted found this convincing.
 
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Bikewer said:
Hasted is, as I recall, the remarkably credulous physicist who wrote a book called The Metal Benders. He experimented with children a great deal, since children "wouldn't cheat"....

I actually read the thing, and I believe (it's been a while) that Martin Gardner wrote an article dissecting the book.
Among the wonders found by Hasted was that his children couldn't perform while being observed... They only produced results when allowed to work with the test items alone. He dubbed this the "shyness effect".....

I recall one of the experiments involving the children trying to bend metal wires inside a glass sphere. They couldn't do it. Perhaps the glass resisted their psychic powers? So, in order to allow the magical whatevers to flow, he allowed a small hole in the sphere.
Amazingly, the children (in secret of course) could now "scrunch" the bits of wire.
Hasted found this convincing.
Click to expand...

Interesting (and slightly mind-boggling) - thanks!
 
It does reinforce what I often say - the physicists were the ones who took Geller seriously in the UK at least, not the parapsychologists on the whole... Hasted was involved in the Enfield Poltergest case too btw

cj x
 
Interesting. I've been reading vintage Punisher, and there's an issue featuring a thinly-disguised Jim Jones and his cult. The character is shown to be a fraud in terms of motive, but (surprisingly) they never debunk his 'healing touch', which appears to actually heal the Punisher of a bullet wound. Wolfman again perhaps?
 
I suspect but do not know one letter would not constitute a copyright breach. Others may know more.

Ethan, you asked what became of the scientists I knew about two and looked one up for you. John Taylor worked long and hard on spoon bending, looking for an electromagnetic explanation, before deciding it was all hoaxing or hallucination - his Science and the Supernatural (1980) marks his conversion to strong skepticism on the subject. He died earlier this year: his mainstream contributions to science undoubted. Prof. Hasted died about a decade ago, but had retired by the time of Geller and Enfield. He remained convinced till his death as far as I know, and encouraged his research students to take an open mind to such claims. Wilbur Franklin died of natural causes young - according to Randi because he chose to put his faith in faith healers rather than insulin for his diabetes. The statement that he shot himself in the head because he was disillusioned with Geller was according to Randi a misinterpretation by a non-English speaking journalist (Source: http://www.skeptictank.org/files/randi/legal.htm)

Hope of interest. There were many other physicists who studied Geller. To get an idea of the responses in the parapsychological community, have a look at HC Berendt, JSPR, 47: 762 (December 1974). They were far more critical, and far more cautious. Geller continues to divide people to this day, but the enthusiasm for studying him was certainly keen among expert physicists of the day.

cj x
 
cj.23 said:
I suspect but do not know one letter would not constitute a copyright breach. Others may know more.

Ethan, you asked what became of the scientists I knew about two and looked one up for you. John Taylor worked long and hard on spoon bending, looking for an electromagnetic explanation, before deciding it was all hoaxing or hallucination - his Science and the Supernatural (1980) marks his conversion to strong skepticism on the subject. He died earlier this year: his mainstream contributions to science undoubted. Prof. Hasted died about a decade ago, but had retired by the time of Geller and Enfield. He remained convinced till his death as far as I know, and encouraged his research students to take an open mind to such claims. Wilbur Franklin died of natural causes young - according to Randi because he chose to put his faith in faith healers rather than insulin for his diabetes. The statement that he shot himself in the head because he was disillusioned with Geller was according to Randi a misinterpretation by a non-English speaking journalist (Source: http://www.skeptictank.org/files/randi/legal.htm)

Hope of interest. There were many other physicists who studied Geller. To get an idea of the responses in the parapsychological community, have a look at HC Berendt, JSPR, 47: 762 (December 1974). They were far more critical, and far more cautious. Geller continues to divide people to this day, but the enthusiasm for studying him was certainly keen among expert physicists of the day.

cj x
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Thanks cj, that was really interesting!:)
 
The university I work at was involved in a related scandal. Seems the local Sandy McDonnell, the son of the fellow who founded McDonnell-Douglas, became enthused with the paranormal and funded a "chair", a parapsychology chair here at the university. A small lab was set up and the researchers went in search of talented psychics....

Randi got wind of this effort, and recruited a young fellow, an amateur magician, to apply for the research. Sure enough, the researchers bought this hook, line, and sinker... As Randi coached the young fellow as to his various "powers".
When Randi revealed the hoax, the funding was promptly withdrawn and McDonnell went back (presumably) to building airplanes and cruise missiles.
One of the researchers, well after the fact, allowed as how he was "suspicious" of the young man.....
 
Bikewer said:
The university I work at was involved in a related scandal. Seems the local Sandy McDonnell, the son of the fellow who founded McDonnell-Douglas, became enthused with the paranormal and funded a "chair", a parapsychology chair here at the university. A small lab was set up and the researchers went in search of talented psychics....
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Yep Project Alpha, one of Randi's finest moments - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Alpha

I feel Randi acted with honour throughout, especially in his award of a straight spoon award to Phillips once he improved his protocols (though this was apparently missed off the Skeptical Inquirer list till Randi wrote in to mention the ommission!). Genuinely useful. The New Scientist article on the expose is online now if you google for it. Once again, the physicists are the ones involved - and some in the UK parapsychological community seem to have celebrated their embarrassment, possibly because the grant funding had gone to them, not an established psi lab.

Still, Project Alpha was useful. :)

cj x
 
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This blurring of reality and fantasy reminds me of a letter published In Fantastic Four shortly after in response to the story in FF 98 (May 1970)
about the FF getting rid of a nasty Kree Sentry on the Moon , with a mission to repel human visitors, hours or so before a manned moon landing. Supposedly from named Apollo astronauts annoyed at the idea that they would have needed help to land. The Editor noting with suspicion, the wrong postcode for the letter received rather than that expected from NASA.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Fantastic_Four_Vol_1_98
 
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