Not sure how you missed your own claim... http://s1.zetaboards.com/pumpitout/topic/4583509/1/ Do you need help with how to google stuff?
How is your stand down stuff going? Another no vote for freeing KSM.
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What's your theory about 9/11?
- Thread starter carlitos
- Start date
How is your stand down stuff going? Another no vote for freeing KSM.
jimd3100
Thinker
I never claimed there was a stand down. I claimed if there was a stand down no planes would be shot down. But there was not a stand down. That is my claim. I also claim that Cheney giving the shoot down orders would result in no planes being shot down because he does not have the authority. This is backed up by the military, Anthony Summers, Donald Rumsfeld, and the 9-11 commission. But you still can't figure out your chain of command can you Rambo?
It should be pointed out that you are proving you are clueless on the topic -as usual. BTW- you made two posts in a row without telling us you were a pilot- you and Balsamo-he does it on his board you do it on yours-did he train you or did you train him?
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jimd3100
Thinker
No one ordered a stand down they didn't need to
perhaps it was incompetence perhaps it was deliberate -the lying was certainly deliberate.
Figure out your chain of command yet?
You are proving you are clueless on topic
You seem to be a little off topic...LOL!
You forgot to tell us you were a pilot again
perhaps it was incompetence perhaps it was deliberate -the lying was certainly deliberate.
Figure out your chain of command yet?
You are proving you are clueless on topic
You seem to be a little off topic...LOL!
You forgot to tell us you were a pilot again
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Your google failed to find your shoot-down stuff, upset? Did you forget your claim of a stand-down? It is easy to find.
The topic...
I don't think your stuff supports an inside job, but you still have the fantasy of, The 9/11 Stand Down; How Bush And Rumsfeld created a Stand Down? Will not help KSM. Are you going to contact his lawyers?
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As for point 1:
"MALE SPEAKER 1: Possible news that a 737 just
4 hit the world Trade Center. This is a real world. And
5 we're trying to confirm this. And we're trying to confirm
6 this. okay. CONTINUE taking the fighters down to the New
7 York City area, JFK area as best as you can" [Quote from channel 2 NORAD tapes transcript]
As for point 2:
It just so happens that Colonel Duffy, who was a pilot of that
first F-15, had been involved in some conversation because, as
telephone calls were made, he was aware that there was a
hijacking in the system. It's kind of interesting because HE
CONCLUDED that that indeed might have been that airplane
himself, and [HE]ELECTED to hit the afterburner and to SPEED UP
his way towards New York. [Quote-Gen Larry Arnold 5/23/03]
Which proves the pilots flew FASTER than they were expected to fly.
As for 3:
According to Duffy, "WHEN WE TOOK OFF I left it in full afterburner the whole time."[Filson, 2004, pp.57]
I trust they were "REDIRECTED" at some point AFTER they took off? Enough said.
As for 4:
I don't think your claiming they would have arrived BEFORE the second impact, nor that a fighter jet would have arrived so long after the second impact (from a mere 153 miles away) not to have that effect. So, is it human psychology you want to discuss?
Just to make it easier for people to compare the points 1 through 4 I'll include my original post you Quoted:
"The evidence that that was their plan is:
1. They were originally directed straight to NYC.
2.They were EXPECTED to fly no faster than Max Subsonic.
3.They were not redirected until after they demonstrated they were going to fly faster than expected "in the air BEFORE the radar kicked in" Etc.
4.Their arrive time in NYC (had they followed protocol & flown straight to NYC) would have had them arriving just as the initial shock of the second impact was wearing off and all those thousands of people looking up would then see a pair of F15s fly by and think,"oh,they just missed".
That's how the numbers crunch. I'm just taking the known facts and drawing the logical conclusions."[Quote FrankHT]
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1. You imply, literally in the exact same post, that they were redirected. Were they redirected after takeoff, or sent straight to NYC? Pick one.
2. Who, exactly, expected them to go at normal speed?
3. You trust? You don't have any source? I mean, it's a minor matter, but you're not on a firm foundation.
4. Nice straw man. Repeating the same points over again doesn't make them any less wrong, especially since you've tried an argument by straw man instead of presenting any actual evidence to support your claim.
Of course, if these masterminds have their plan nearly foiled by some random pilot dupes, wouldn't it mean that people who are actually privy to the plan could do even more damage to it, especially if they wanted to not kill thousands in cold blood.
How would the pilots actually know, 100%, that the hijackers were going to use the planes as weapons, before they had actually started to use the planes as weapons?
2. Who, exactly, expected them to go at normal speed?
3. You trust? You don't have any source? I mean, it's a minor matter, but you're not on a firm foundation.
4. Nice straw man. Repeating the same points over again doesn't make them any less wrong, especially since you've tried an argument by straw man instead of presenting any actual evidence to support your claim.
Of course, if these masterminds have their plan nearly foiled by some random pilot dupes, wouldn't it mean that people who are actually privy to the plan could do even more damage to it, especially if they wanted to not kill thousands in cold blood.
How would the pilots actually know, 100%, that the hijackers were going to use the planes as weapons, before they had actually started to use the planes as weapons?
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Why do you suppose the person speaking added the bold to the statement? In ATC terms, what would be the "JFK area"?
fess
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2009
- Messages
- 1,425
You do realize that New York City area, and JFK area encompasses quite a large area, don’t you? It is not something that I, or any other pilot would expect to hear from ATC or anybody else as a direct clearance.
Well, I guess I’ll have to give you a point; you finally got Duffy’s rank correct.
How do you know what conclusions Duffy arrived at?
Tell us who expected them to fly at what speed.
You “trust” that they were redirected? In other words, you don’t know.
The only claim I made is that your point number 4 was a bunch of bunk. You are still using your claim of “patriotic flyover”, just rewording it.
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beachnut,
Who wants to help KSM? He is a dirty criminal terrorist and should be locked up for life.
Instead of spending time posting your baseless insults, maybe you and others could actually familiarise yourselves with the information before saying there is nothing to it.
When you understand all the information as a whole like jimd3100 and paloalto do, there is no other conclusion you can come to.
Unless you're Ron Wieck and think that Bush covered-up for the Saudis and attacked Iraq instead because Bush didn't want to embarrass the Saudis.
Who wants to help KSM? He is a dirty criminal terrorist and should be locked up for life.
Instead of spending time posting your baseless insults, maybe you and others could actually familiarise yourselves with the information before saying there is nothing to it.
When you understand all the information as a whole like jimd3100 and paloalto do, there is no other conclusion you can come to.
Unless you're Ron Wieck and think that Bush covered-up for the Saudis and attacked Iraq instead because Bush didn't want to embarrass the Saudis.
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jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Looking at the latest track, a hundred or so miles south would work better for us.
Lawrence Write asked in his book and in later interviews why the people at the CIA who had criminally obstructed FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and FBI Agent Ali Soufan's investigation into the Cole bombing, had never been held accountable for obstructing the FBI criminal investigation of the Cole bombing. His book Looming Tower detailed the three times that Soufan had asked the CIA for any information they had on Walid bin Attash and any meeting in southeast Asia/Kuala Lumpur. He was told that the CIA had none of this information when they in reality had all of this information.
The photographs taken at Kuala Lumpur the CIA had of Khalid al-Midhar, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Walid bin Attash were not given to Ali Soufan until September 12, 2001, obviously too late for Soufan and his team of Cole bombing investigators to prevent the attacks on 9/11, but iron clad proof that the CIA had this information all along. Had the CIA just given Soufan these photos when Soufan had asked for these photos, the attacks on 9/11 could have been prevented. It was this criminal obstruction of the FBI investigation of the Cole bombing that had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.
But you already knew that RIGHT!
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
paloalto, reading what I have of your posts I come to the conclusion that you are docuementing the well known interagency dstrut that existed for decades, and little more than that.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Any theories as to why he would only ask and not actually present the evidence necessary to accuse? Think really hard.
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
To you.
This makes no sense. What information could I use? I have the same information as you. I never said your information was wrong. You want me to dig into your mind and debunk how you see it?
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2005
- Messages
- 12,374
What I know is that the bolded part is simply your opinion. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, is it not? Imagine, the CIA and the FBI not communicating properly. That NEVER happened before
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
...and if was anything more than that paloalto would be a millionaire.
Any theories as to why he would only ask and not actually present the evidence necessary to accuse? Think really hard.
He did presenet the evdience in his book, "Looming Tower", and his artcle in the July 10-17, 2006 New Yorker, "the FBI agent who almost stopped the attacks on 9/11", an artcle on FBI Agent Ali Soufan. You don't have to think hard, just read this material.