Hoarding and mental illness:

[JSFolk]

Some hoarders seem to attach very strong emotional response to each item... They recall exactly where they got it and who gave it to them and the circumstances. Getting rid of the item seems to be deliberately getting rid of a cherished memory.

I've seen that claim made before about hoarders, but with what I've read about people essentially making up memories to explain things, I have to wonder if they are really remembering, or just unconsciously making it all up.

 

[DragonLady]

I've seen that claim made before about hoarders, but with what I've read about people essentially making up memories to explain things, I have to wonder if they are really remembering, or just unconsciously making it all up.

Or maybe they simply don't want to share the truth? There are a few things in my "stash" that I don't want to explain to my family...so I don't. And if pressed, I'll come up with some fairy tale for the sole purpose of making sure they're sorry they asked.

 

[Dancing David]

I'm starting to sense a "just right" level of chaos.

I can almost see myself pro-actively arranging some dirty dishes around the house, that no one suspects my underlying neurosis.

Would that be nuts?

I would not use the term nuts, my strategies for coping with OCD varied on the situation. Placing my keys in my shoes, that way I knew where they were, having a 'clean' hand and a 'dirty' hand while I was cooking, so I did not wash my hands every twenty seconds.

Personal definitions of functioning and contentment with life are part of the criteria, but I also don't use the term neurosis.

 

[Dancing David]

I've seen that claim made before about hoarders, but with what I've read about people essentially making up memories to explain things, I have to wonder if they are really remembering, or just unconsciously making it all up.

Considering that these are people in a long term process, I am not sure what benefit there would be to making stuff up.

My memories, prior to treatment, were full of obsessions about all the dumb things I has ever done in my life, some of them going way way back into my youth. I also had strong visual memories of many other times in my life, again going back into childhood. But since zoloft and the decrease in obsession, they are all gone.

My brother has a partly eidectic memory, it is amazing his level of recall.

 

[Mark6]

I never got the first part of that message. If they're things you actually need, then I don't think they would take up enough space to impact anyone's quality of life.

I very much agree. I am a minimalist -- it's not that I compulsively throw things away (although there is a bit of that) -- I generally avoid buying anything in the first place, unless I am absolutely certain I need it, and will need it for a long time.

When people ask me what I want for birthday or New Year, my typical answer (unless I really need something specific, like hand vacuum) is "Experiences". I do not want things as presents -- they are just clutter. If you want to do something nice for me, get me tickets to some place/event I will enjoy.

Both my first and second wives were... not exactly hoarders, but liked to have lots of stuff. I hated it. I felt the house is overflowing with crap. Now that I am divorcing for the second time, I enjoy the starkness of my new apartment. Not a single item I do not actually use, and I love it that way!

 

[SomedayGirl]

Both cable hoarding shows are my guilty pleasure. I think the difference between being a hoarder and being a packrat or collector is how the objects are impacting your life. Hoarders find themselves unable to part with items even to save themselves or their homes or their relationships.

There are hoarders who have homes so filled that if there they had an accident or a fire, rescue personnel couldn't get to them. A hoarder in that situation shrugs and says they'd rather risk that than get rid of anything. There are hoarders who have homes that have become structurally unsound as a result of the hoard. A hoarder in that situation would let the floor collapse rather than get rid of anything. There are hoarders who have ended up divorced or estranged from children or have lost custody over the hoard. A hoarder, even in the face of those kinds of serious consequences, will be unable to choose the people over the things.

It's that disordered kind of thinking that sets hoarders apart. The immediacy of their need to possess short circuits their reasoning, risk assessment, and long term planning. The floor isn't collapsing right now and I need the mountains of newspapers and old appliance manuals and 30 year old paperbacks. I see your misery but you haven't left me yet so the rabbit warren must not bother you that much. No the heat doesn't work because needed repairs can't be done but I have a coat and I have plans for those stacks of margarine tubs. I'm facing foreclosure but the sale on those tee shirts is so good I'll buy a dozen and stuff them in the back closet with the rest of them.

ETA: I didn't even mention the hoarders who prefer to live with vermin rather than get rid of anything. And the food hoarders - it's possible they freak me out more than any other kind. Expired food from a couple years back, distorted cans and malformed refrigerator containers, infested cereal and flour? No problem, the dates are just a suggestion anyway, you can cut the mold off, and the grubs in your grub are a delicacy in some parts of the world. <shiver> Gah.

 

[Lithrael]

Reading the stories on that Squalor Survivors site made me cry (in a good way). So glad there are still corners of compassion out there even on the usually-cruel internet.

 

[quarky]

I very much agree. I am a minimalist -- it's not that I compulsively throw things away (although there is a bit of that) -- I generally avoid buying anything in the first place, unless I am absolutely certain I need it, and will need it for a long time.

When people ask me what I want for birthday or New Year, my typical answer (unless I really need something specific, like hand vacuum) is "Experiences". I do not want things as presents -- they are just clutter. If you want to do something nice for me, get me tickets to some place/event I will enjoy.

Both my first and second wives were... not exactly hoarders, but liked to have lots of stuff. I hated it. I felt the house is overflowing with crap. Now that I am divorcing for the second time, I enjoy the starkness of my new apartment. Not a single item I do not actually use, and I love it that way!

Hoo-boy, you're doomed to a lonely life. Enjoying starkness is the realm of monks. I should have been one, but I had hormones.

My second wife had so many throw pillows, that you couldn't sit on the couch. It was hilarious, in a way, and I didn't care for couch sitting anyway, due to back pain.

My x-mas present (and b-day) plan was that you go to your friends house, and take something. No one has to shop, and its essentially stuff-accumulation neutral.

Whadya think?

 

[dlorde]

When people ask me what I want for birthday or New Year, my typical answer (unless I really need something specific, like hand vacuum) is "Experiences". I do not want things as presents -- they are just clutter. If you want to do something nice for me, get me tickets to some place/event I will enjoy.

These days I opt for food & drink. Things I will enjoy without cluttering up the house afterwards.

I used to love gadgets and gizmos of all sorts, and would buy them just out of fascination at their cunning design or technology. I don't do that any more because most technology (outside of smart phones) is a bit 'meh', and I know I'll find them hard to throw away. I still have an HP-67 card-programmable calculator, Sony cassette walkman, Sony minidisc walkman, a Psion Agenda finger-chord PDA, Psion Series 5, etc., etc.

 

[quarky]

My dad had a big collection of top-notch ivory slide rules.
He wanted me to have them. I let them go to auction.
I feel like crap about it, but I can't afford to have valuable things in my home.
I'd have to get locks on my doors, and insurance and such.

 

[Mark6]

Hoo-boy, you're doomed to a lonely life. Enjoying starkness is the realm of monks. I should have been one, but I had hormones.

My second wife had so many throw pillows, that you couldn't sit on the couch. It was hilarious, in a way, and I didn't care for couch sitting anyway, due to back pain.

My x-mas present (and b-day) plan was that you go to your friends house, and take something. No one has to shop, and its essentially stuff-accumulation neutral.

Whadya think?

Actually, my new girlfriend is much like me. She too hates "stuff", and much prefers experiences as presents. You can't imagine how happy I was to find that out!

 

[quarky]

Actually, my new girlfriend is much like me. She too hates "stuff", and much prefers experiences as presents. You can't imagine how happy I was to find that out!

Mark 6, you slut.
You have evidently pulled off the incredible.

Hopefully, the sex tapes will be available?

We are all cheerleading your efforts. One small step for mankind, one huge step for blah blah blah.

Go man, go.
Let me know if you need any tips on running her out, after you discover that you don't really love her.

That crap can get awkward squared.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Throwing out electronics is my problem. Cables. Connectors. 14.4Kb modems. They still look like new!

And yet...I never seem to have a spare USB cable when I need one. Where do they go?

And then there's the curse of every garden shed and garage-
"It will come in handy sometime..."

You know it won't.

Until the day after you finally throw it away, when the old Persian guy shows up, trading new router modems for old...

 

[temporalillusion]

Throwing out electronics is my problem. Cables. Connectors. 14.4Kb modems. They still look like new!

So many times this.

Now I have one box for cables and electronics, and force myself to sell or toss the stuff I don't use. And the box gets a good cleaning out every so often getting rid of stuff that hasn't been touched.

I mean if I haven't touched it in 2 years, I don't need it (what I tell myself anyway). And the one random time I did end up needing it, going and buying another one isn't going to put me in the poor house.

So now between posting stuff for "free for pickup" on kijiji (Canada's version of craigslist) and the electronics recycling depot that is now a 5 minute drive from my home, I have this much more under control.

 

[Wirelight]

I've been lugging around a heavy duty plastic bag full of an assortment of crappy audio cables, Super Nintendo wires, thin pointless speaker wire and all sorts of doo-dads. After almost 20 years of hauling this bag around whenever I move and never using anything from it, I think it's time to throw it out.

 

[ebastogne]

ASs a culture wee are hoarders. Our economies are predicated on the acquisition and retention of garbage we do not need.

 

[Wowbagger]

"Hoarder" vs. "Super Collector"

I think there is a crucial distinction to be made between a "hoarder" and a "super collector". At least according to Nat Geo.

A Super Collector might have a gigantic collection of various things. But, they keep them well organized and maintained. They never become a health or safety hazard. And, they typically have an "amazing" memory of exactly what they have, and how many, in their huge collection.
A Super Collector will often be willing to part with pieces of their collection, at least for the right price or occasion.

A hoarder, on the other hand, will typically pile lots of things ontop of piles of lots of other things. These become increasingly messy and hazardous over time... Sometimes to the point where they're just not taking out the garbage from the garbage cans, anymore. And, their memory of what they even have in those piles becomes faulty.
For example: When asked how many pairs of pants they have in their piles of clothes, they will typically underestimate by a wide margin.
And, yet, the hoarder is usually unwilling to part with any of it, unless the intervention efforts are massive.

As you might imagine: The Super Collector likes to show off, and can shake off criticism that they might be obsessed or a "hoarder".
The genuine hoarder is often shameful of their "collection", and is loathe to let anyone see it.

 

[I Ratant]

Throwing out electronics is my problem. Cables. Connectors. 14.4Kb modems. They still look like new!

And yet...I never seem to have a spare USB cable when I need one. Where do they go?

And then there's the curse of every garden shed and garage-
"It will come in handy sometime..."

You know it won't.

Until the day after you finally throw it away, when the old Persian guy shows up, trading new router modems for old...

.
I always use the "10-year rule".... except when I don't.
"If it hasn't moved in 10 years, toss it!"
.. but but but... that's my only Johnson rod, I needed that one time, and...

 

[quarky]

The advent of storage buildings is somewhat telling.
I never saw them as a kid; now they are everywhere.

It would be fun to see what's in them.

 

[I Ratant]

I went purposefully to the cabinet where I have 30 years of empty water bottles stored from my serious biking days.. Pulled out the first one.. It's in pristine condition, and could be useful. Closed the cabinet door.. sob!