What's your theory about 9/11?

[fess]

Now to tie up a lose end. I claimed that the Otis fighters were only given enough fuel to do a "patriots" flyover of the WTC AFTER 175 hit WTC2,but not enough to be a threat to the other planes to be 'hijacked' that day. I based it on the combat radius of an F15 (1200+ miles according to wikipedia) and the fact that at 9:09 that they had traveled less than the 153 miles between Otis AFB & NYC at 9:09 & the claim Capt. Lt Col. Duffy reported to NEADS that the fighters had "less than 30 of fuel remaining".

Now, while you are tying up loose ends, would you mind telling me what a “patriots" flyover is? Is this where we tow an American flag behind us while firing anti missile flares and dropping chaff, all of this while doing a victory roll?

By the way, if they only had enough fuel to do a “patriots” fly over, who the hell siphoned all of the fuel out of the alert aircraft?

You base your theory on the fact that the F-15 has a combat radius of 1200+ miles. But you fail to mention what configuration this aircraft was in. The Otis fighters were probably closer to a range of around 800 miles in their configuration.

Also, Duffy said they were “full blower” all the way through W-105. At that power, they were burning more than twice the amount of fuel they would have during a normal strike mission. After they slowed down to enter the holding pattern, 30 minutes of fuel remaining would have been close. Military thrust: 0.76 lb/(lbf•h), Full afterburner: 1.94 lb/(lbf•h).

You still haven’t answered the question posed to you by me and other members, what branch of the military were you in?

 

[FrankHT]

The problem with this is that the ground crew who fueled the alert fighters and the pilots who flew them would have known that they had less fuel than they normally have for that mission. This would arouse suspicion after the attacks and people would talk about it.

So,you are basically saying it can't be true because someone would have talked? I'm afraid the evidence is against you on that one. For about the first week we were told that no fighters were scrambled at all until AFTER the Pentagon was struck. Many people knew this wasn't true. Did any speak up? NO!
Then we were given a set of notification times that were agreed upon both NORAD & the FAA (stood for 3 years). Including such claims as the tracking of Flight 93 as early as 9:16 (before it was even hijacked). Many people had to have known these times and claims weren't true (assuming today's official story is). Did any of them speak up? NO!
So,the claim that today's official story must be true,"because someone would talk" is disproved by their silence on pasted 'official' stories.
It's as simple as this: military people do what they're told. Whatever the official story is at the moment,that's what they'll defend & claim to believe. If the official story does a 180 & contradicts itself,that's okay,because it's like General Smeldley Butler said,"like ALL enlisted personnel,I didn't have an original thought until AFTER I left the military".

 

[beachnut]

So,you are basically saying it can't be true because someone would have talked? I'm afraid the evidence is against you on that one. For about the first week we were told that no fighters were scrambled at all until AFTER the Pentagon was struck. Many people knew this wasn't true. Did any speak up? NO!
Then we were given a set of notification times that were agreed upon both NORAD & the FAA (stood for 3 years). Including such claims as the tracking of Flight 93 as early as 9:16 (before it was even hijacked). Many people had to have known these times and claims weren't true (assuming today's official story is). Did any of them speak up? NO!
So,the claim that today's official story must be true,"because someone would talk" is disproved by their silence on pasted 'official' stories.
It's as simple as this: military people do what they're told. Whatever the official story is at the moment,that's what they'll defend & claim to believe. If the official story does a 180 & contradicts itself,that's okay,because it's like General Smeldley Butler said,"like ALL enlisted personnel,I didn't have an original thought until AFTER I left the military".

Quote mining away again. And you show great disrespect for enlisted personnel by repeating a stupid statement you quote mined.

“I spent 33 years and 4 months in active service as a member of our country’s most agile military force–the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from second lieutenant to Major General. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism. I suspected I was part of a racket all the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought until I left the service.”
- Major General Smedley D. Butler (1881-1940) author of “War is a Racket”

... can't get the quotes right? Why? You are using political claptrap, a false statement, as fodder to support a fantasy? Not true all members of the military never had an original thought until they left the service. ... go ahead, cherry-pick the quotes you need to build a bigger fantasy.

You offer no time-line on fuel usage, but make up some wild idiotic plot the aircraft were shorted fuel. The pilots would state they were short of fuel on the radio, "hey, where is the fuel". You make up silly claims base on total ignorance of 911, and flying.

What is the fuel state at takeoff, takeoff time, time spent in AB, time spent in MAX AB, etc. What does 30 minutes mean? 30 minutes to bingo, 30 minutes to flame-out, 30 minutes till they need a tanker. You offer zero. You repost stories from NWO news sources and then make up dumbed down BS statements that mean nothing, and offer little insight to your position on 911.

 

[DGM]

.
It's as simple as this: military people do what they're told. Whatever the official story is at the moment,that's what they'll defend & claim to believe.

Yeah, right.

I notice you shy away from the question of what the fighters could have done if they did in-fact get there in time. Oh, that's right, you said "blast away" (like in the movies).

 

[twinstead]

Nobody who has ever been in the military--and paid any attention at all--would think that military people would all do what they're told and believe whatever story was given to them no matter what.

 

[DGM]

Nobody who has ever been in the military or knows anyone that's been in the military--and paid any attention at all-would think that military people would all do what they're told and believe whatever story was given to them no matter what.

ftfy

 

[beachnut]

... ,because it's like General Smeldley Butler said,"like ALL enlisted personnel,I didn't have an original thought until AFTER I left the military".

Who is General Smeldley Butler? Oh, you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

You are using his political side to support some crazy fantasy you have? There is nothing wrong with anti-war thinking, I served for 28 years and appreciate the debate before exercising force. You used the wrong person to quote. Butler took action and made things happen, or it appears on the surface. Not exactly a bad example of non-thinking military ineptness you are trying to paint with a failed brush of nonsense.

Some Marine officers argued that it should be assaulted by a regiment supported by artillery, but Butler convinced his colonel to allow him to attack with just four companies of 24 men each, plus two machine gun detachments.[26]

Oops, an original thought.


Smedley lied, or did he forget his original thoughts during his service? Do you understand political statements, versus reality?

Are you going to quote Hiltler next? Or Hitler?

 

[Reactor drone]

So,you are basically saying it can't be true because someone would have talked? I'm afraid the evidence is against you on that one. For about the first week we were told that no fighters were scrambled at all until AFTER the Pentagon was struck. Many people knew this wasn't true. Did any speak up? NO!

If nobody spoke up, how do you know about it?

 

[Justin39640]

In my flight sim LOMAC, the first MP dogfight I was in I was flying around at full burn the whole time. After about ten minutes I finally pulled lead on my enemy. Just as the pipper fell on his fuselage I ran out of gas. Didn't have enough time to pull the trigger lol.

 

[FrankHT]

The pilots would state they were short of fuel on the radio, "hey, where is the fuel". You make up silly claims base on total ignorance of 911, and flying.

Alright,so,where are the cockpit voice recordings? Certainly at this late date they've been released to the public,right? So,where are they?

 

[beachnut]

Alright,so,where are the cockpit voice recordings? Certainly at this late date they've been released to the public,right? So,where are they?

Does an F-15 or F-16 have cockpit voice recorders? Are you the 911 truth expert on this topic?

How much fuel did they have? 30 minutes on station, or what? Does history commons leave you high and dry, BINGO fuel on this subject? Do you understand what you post is from the evil NWO news sources which 911 truth has to say was in on the 911 cover-up, your fantasy?

911 truth, and you, use main-steam media to fuel your fantasy. Cherry-picking and quote-mining your way to nonsense faster than free fall.

 

[FrankHT]

Yeah, right.

I notice you shy away from the question of what the fighters could have done if they did in-fact get there in time. Oh, that's right, you said "blast away" (like in the movies).

So,why do emergency scrambles of fighters at all? Why did the military respond at all? What's the point? To make sure the fighters pilots got a really good view? I assume there was a reason fighters were scrambled rather than just news helicopters? There was a reason,right?
Oh,I know,they were supposed to do a song & dance (while the towers burned),right? Overtake, peek the into cockpit to make sure the pilot isn't slumped over dead,over take,rock wings,over take again,come back round,ask for permission to fire a warning shot,wait for permission,wait for permission,wait for permission (I assumed they'd be asking Marr,so it'd be a LONG wait). Once permission came,fire warning shot,over take,rock wings,see if he follows,come back round.......In other words,it would take all damn day to shoot a plane down by the book.
The pilots knew it couldn't be done by the book. And the perpetrators knew the pilots knew it and couldn't be trusted to follow the book which is why this elaborate game of 'keep away' had to be played in the first place.
So,beachnut,I guess are right about military people. They do have original thoughts.

 

[beachnut]

... The pilots knew it couldn't be done by the book. And the perpetrators knew the pilots knew it and couldn't be trusted to follow the book which is why this elaborate game of 'keep away' had to be played in the first place.
So,beachnut,I guess are right about military people. They do have original thoughts.

The perpetrators were 19 murderers. They cut throats, rushing the cockpit taking it in seconds, killing pilots in place, pilots back to them, strapped in with shoulder harness and seat belts, warm blood running down their chest as they pass out. And here you are, no idea it was 19 terrorist, making up delusional lies, and fantasy based on zero knowledge, zero fact, zero evidence. You don't understand flying, 911, and have no idea the 911 truth movement is only in the minds of those fooled by those selling DVDs, Books, and lies.

There was no game of keep away. The fighters on alert were used to intercept incoming planes, not domestic airliners. You don't seem to learn after 11 years. Why? Why do you apologize for 19 murderers?

 

[dafydd]

So,why do emergency scrambles of fighters at all? Why did the military respond at all? What's the point? To make sure the fighters pilots got a really good view? I assume there was a reason fighters were scrambled rather than just news helicopters? There was a reason,right?
Oh,I know,they were supposed to do a song & dance (while the towers burned),right? Overtake, peek the into cockpit to make sure the pilot isn't slumped over dead,over take,rock wings,over take again,come back round,ask for permission to fire a warning shot,wait for permission,wait for permission,wait for permission (I assumed they'd be asking Marr,so it'd be a LONG wait). Once permission came,fire warning shot,over take,rock wings,see if he follows,come back round.......In other words,it would take all damn day to shoot a plane down by the book.
The pilots knew it couldn't be done by the book. And the perpetrators knew the pilots knew it and couldn't be trusted to follow the book which is why this elaborate game of 'keep away' had to be played in the first place.
So,beachnut,I guess are right about military people. They do have original thoughts.

When in a hole, stop digging.

 

[tsig]

Alright,so,where are the cockpit voice recordings? Certainly at this late date they've been released to the public,right? So,where are they?

What flight recorders?

 

[FrankHT]

When in a hole, stop digging.

But I'm not in a hole. I made legitimate points & asked legitimate questions. I keep being asked,"what did you want them to do? Shoot down a civilian airliner? It might have landed on a school or a hospital" etc,etc.
Okay,then,if shooting down a civilian airliner is such an extreme idea then why scramble fighters in the first place? Why fighters? Fighters are to shoot things down. What was the rush? Why an emergency scramble? Why "full blower all the way"? To get there and do nothing but watch?
Of course the intention was to shoot them down and after 9:03 it wasn't going happening by the book (actually after 8:47). The pilots weren't going to bother with the little game of over take,rock wings etc,etc. And everyone knew it.
Therefore when I see things that look like an intentional game of keep away being played from within our own air defenses,I say so.

 

[DGM]

But I'm not in a hole. I made legitimate points & asked legitimate questions. I keep being asked,"what did you want them to do? Shoot down a civilian airliner? It might have landed on a school or a hospital" etc,etc.
Okay,then,if shooting down a civilian airliner is such an extreme idea then why scramble fighters in the first place? Why fighters? Fighters are to shoot things down. What was the rush? Why an emergency scramble? Why "full blower all the way"? To get there and do nothing but watch?
Of course the intention was to shoot them down and after 9:03 it wasn't going happening by the book (actually after 8:47). The pilots weren't going to bother with the little game of over take,rock wings etc,etc. And everyone knew it.
Therefore when I see things that look like an intentional game of keep away being played from within our own air defenses,I say so.

This all assumes they knew what was going to happen. How would they know the hijackers were going to use the planes as weapons? Hind sight a wonderful thing, huh?

How many intercepts and shoot downs were there before 9/11 for a NORDO plane off course. Why didn't they shoot down Payne Stewarts plane ? They were unresponsive.

 

[FrankHT]

This all assumes they knew what was going to happen. How would they know the hijackers were going to use the planes as weapons? Hind sight a wonderful thing, huh?

How many intercepts and shoot downs were there before 9/11 for a NORDO plane off course. Why didn't they shoot down Payne Stewarts plane ? They were unresponsive.

Steward's plane was flying over the middle of nowhere. That's not the same thing as NYC or Washington DC.

 

[DGM]

The pilots knew it couldn't be done by the book. And the perpetrators knew the pilots knew it and couldn't be trusted to follow the book which is why this elaborate game of 'keep away' had to be played in the first place.

Funny how in one post you believe these people can't think for themselves and only do what they're told, then flip over to the pilots making it up as they go along and breaking every rule they're taught. Wouldn't that idea kind of throw the whole chain of command idea out the window?

Personally, I'm glad the world doesn't work like you think it does, I feel safer that way.

 

[DGM]

Steward's plane was flying over the middle of nowhere. That's not the same thing as NYC or Washington DC.

Why did it take so long to get to it? When they lost contact it was not "in the middle of no where". Was that an elaborate game too?