What's your theory about 9/11?

[FrankHT]

Yes, I am quite sure this training flight never happened. Not one article I have read stated that it did happen. All the articles say the training mission was supposed to happen, or, it was scheduled to happen. There is no mention of this training mission ever taking off.

To think that these pilots on the training mission watched the alert aircraft take off is out there with the rest of your theories. You can’t even see Otis from W-105.

"Pilots Continue Preparing for Training - Once the two alert fighters are airborne, the pilots on the ground continue preparing for their training mission. “Back on the flight line,” Richard will recall, “I arranged my formation for takeoff and followed the standard procedures en route to our training area southwest of Martha’s Vineyard.” [Richard, 2010, pp. 12] Richard and the other pilots WILL BEGIN their training mission in Whiskey 105 (see (9:00 a.m.-9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001). They will only learn of the first crash at the World Trade Center and BE RECALLED to their base at around 9:25 a.m. (see (9:25 a.m.-9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001), and some of them will take off again to help protect US airspace, but that will only be after the terrorist attacks have ended (see (10:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001 and (Shortly After 10:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [102nd Fighter Wing, 2001; 9/11 Commission, 10/14/2003 pdf file; Spencer, 2008, pp. 244-246] "

I'm glad you're quite sure. I guess that means my other 'theories' aren't that "out there".

 

[cjnewson88]

Has frank proposed a narrative with supporting evidence yet? Or is he still relying on 'copy paste' from history commons....

 

[Miragememories]

You never seem to directly answer questions put to you or statements that put your ideas into doubt. It's not a big deal, we understand that you have nothing, but at least try not to actually quote the statement you refuse to address if you're going to post idiocy in response.

It's the right thing to do.

Are you referring to yourself?

MM

 

[Mark F]

"Pilots Continue Preparing for Training - Once the two alert fighters are airborne, the pilots on the ground continue preparing for their training mission. “Back on the flight line,” Richard will recall, “I arranged my formation for takeoff and followed the standard procedures en route to our training area southwest of Martha’s Vineyard.” [Richard, 2010, pp. 12] Richard and the other pilots WILL BEGIN their training mission in Whiskey 105 (see (9:00 a.m.-9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001). They will only learn of the first crash at the World Trade Center and BE RECALLED to their base at around 9:25 a.m. (see (9:25 a.m.-9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001), and some of them will take off again to help protect US airspace, but that will only be after the terrorist attacks have ended (see (10:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001 and (Shortly After 10:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [102nd Fighter Wing, 2001; 9/11 Commission, 10/14/2003 pdf file; Spencer, 2008, pp. 244-246] "

I'm glad you're quite sure. I guess that means my other 'theories' aren't that "out there".

Thank you for posting the evidence the training missions never happened. The aircraft involved were recalled before any training could really take place.

 

[twinstead]

Are you referring to yourself?

I'm not the one making claims. Now I realize that for some strange reason the members of your cult--even those of different sects--will support each other when attacked by the Evil Debunkers, but seriously. You read mikeys' posts. Do you really want to hitch your wagon to that star?

 

[fess]

"Pilots Continue Preparing for Training - Once the two alert fighters are airborne, the pilots on the ground continue preparing for their training mission. “Back on the flight line,” Richard will recall, “I arranged my formation for takeoff and followed the standard procedures en route to our training area southwest of Martha’s Vineyard.” [Richard, 2010, pp. 12] Richard and the other pilots WILL BEGIN their training mission in Whiskey 105 (see (9:00 a.m.-9:24 a.m.) September 11, 2001). They will only learn of the first crash at the World Trade Center and BE RECALLED to their base at around 9:25 a.m. (see (9:25 a.m.-9:45 a.m.) September 11, 2001), and some of them will take off again to help protect US airspace, but that will only be after the terrorist attacks have ended (see (10:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001 and (Shortly After 10:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [102nd Fighter Wing, 2001; 9/11 Commission, 10/14/2003 pdf file; Spencer, 2008, pp. 244-246] "

I'm glad you're quite sure. I guess that means my other 'theories' aren't that "out there".

Originally Posted by FrankHT
Are you sure the training mission never happened? I think those F15 on that training mission were already up & saw the two alert status fighters scramble. Should I go get?

Wait a minute, didn’t you previously state that the training flight was already in the air and watched the alert fighters take off? Now you are saying that the training flight was still on the ground preparing for takeoff. It seems we have a slight contradiction here.

You do know what “recalled” means don’t you?

So it would seem that you are not sure of what you state. That being the case, I would say that your theory is still way out there>>>>>>>>>>>>.

 

[tsig]

Bravo ! I honestly didn't think anyone would catch that. I've used basically that same comment for years & this is only the second time anyone has ever called me on it (1st was Dr. Legg on Blogger..A truther).
Yes,once 77 passed through the 'catchers mitt' it had just support columns to deal with. Not so had it struck higher in the building though. Did you know there were people on the third floor directly above the path of 77 who survived? That couldn't have happened anyplace but wedge one. Another example of luck?

Wait a minute, didn’t you previously state that the training flight was already in the air and watched the alert fighters take off? Now you are saying that the training flight was still on the ground preparing for takeoff. It seems we have a slight contradiction here. You do know what “recalled” means don’t you?

So it would seem that you are not sure of what you state. That being the case, I would say that your theory is still way out there>>>>>>>>>>>>.

It would seem that making statements that are contradictory to fact is part of his argument.

 

[dafydd]

Are you referring to yourself?

MM

Do you agree with everything that FrankHT has said? Even the bits that contradict each other?

 

[FrankHT]

Wait a minute, didn’t you previously state that the training flight was already in the air and watched the alert fighters take off? Now you are saying that the training flight was still on the ground preparing for takeoff. It seems we have a slight contradiction here.

You do know what “recalled” means don’t you?

So it would seem that you are not sure of what you state. That being the case, I would say that your theory is still way out there>>>>>>>>>>>>.

You're right. I misremembered what I had read & said they saw the Otis scramble while returning from a training mission when,in fact,they saw the scramble from the ground while preparing for their training mission. However,that still puts me far ahead of the game than you! Who was,"quite certain" no training mission ever took off that day & therefore couldn't have seen the Otis scramble. Not only did they see the Otis scramble,But they DID take off & made it all the way to Whiskey 105 before being recalled.
So, in the scheme of things,I thing you got the worst of it in this little exchange.

 

[FrankHT]

Now to tie up a lose end. I claimed that the Otis fighters were only given enough fuel to do a "patriots" flyover of the WTC AFTER 175 hit WTC2,but not enough to be a threat to the other planes to be 'hijacked' that day. I based it on the combat radius of an F15 (1200+ miles according to wikipedia) and the fact that at 9:09 that they had traveled less than the 153 miles between Otis AFB & NYC at 9:09 & the claim Capt. Duffy reported to NEADS that the fighters had "less than 30 of fuel remaining".
Tracking down the claim Capt. Duffy reported the same at 9:09 has proved difficult. History Commons sources it to Lynn Spencer's book 'Touching History'. So, I ordered a copy of the book (.99cents used + $4.00 shipping Amazon). It arrived today.
Her book does indeed state that Capt Duffy reported at 9:09 that the fighters had Less than 30 minutes of fuel remaining (Page 112). Spencer claims to have interviewed those involved (I assume this includes Capt Duffy). So,there it stands.
Is this an example of an author taking 'license' or did Capt Duffy tell her that in an interview? I don't know. And I know of no way to find out other than by asking either her or Capt. Duffy (preferable both). So,there it stands.
But in the interest of the 'Truth' I think we should try to contact both of them to nail it down.

 

[LoudHoward]

Yep,I intentionally left that out. Why,because Borgstrum took it upon HIMSELF to order the guns loaded. Read it again,the callers tone was "URGENT". The caller had just been told the other two pilots are already at battle stations and the caller says, “Suit up and go fly! We need all of you at battle stations!”. Nothing about ordering the guns loaded. Borgstrum took it upon himself to order it done. The order as given,followed exactly,would have had the plane unarmed. NEADS leadership knew that.

If you're going to be so completely literal like that, then I think the order as given, followed exactly, would've had a fellow running around in a tuxedo wildly flapping his arms about! No doubt NEADS leadership knew that.

 

[FrankHT]

If you're going to be so completely literal like that, then I think the order as given, followed exactly, would've had a fellow running around in a tuxedo wildly flapping his arms about! No doubt NEADS leadership knew that.

Thank you. I needed that. I literally (LoL) when I read that.

 

[000063]

Are you referring to yourself?

MM

Another content-free, thinly veiled personal attack post from MM. Let's give 'im a big hand.

 

[Dcdrac]

I hav this weird whacky idea it was a bunch of terrostists what done it

 

[dafydd]

I hav this weird whacky idea it was a bunch of terrostists what done it

Terrorists flying planes into buildings? Much too far-fetched.

 

[twinstead]

Terrorists flying planes into buildings? Much too far-fetched.

And not nearly cool enough. I'm staying with a combination of thermate, space beams, and mini-nukes.

 

[Reactor drone]

Now to tie up a lose end. I claimed that the Otis fighters were only given enough fuel to do a "patriots" flyover of the WTC AFTER 175 hit WTC2,but not enough to be a threat to the other planes to be 'hijacked' that day. I based it on the combat radius of an F15 (1200+ miles according to wikipedia) and the fact that at 9:09 that they had traveled less than the 153 miles between Otis AFB & NYC at 9:09 & the claim Capt. Duffy reported to NEADS that the fighters had "less than 30 of fuel remaining".

The problem with this is that the ground crew who fueled the alert fighters and the pilots who flew them would have known that they had less fuel than they normally have for that mission. This would arouse suspicion after the attacks and people would talk about it. Nothing has ever been brought up about the planes having insufficient fuel and your beliefs are based purely on a lack of understanding of how different mission profiles affect the radius of action of a warplane.

 

[Mark F]

I hav this weird whacky idea it was a bunch of terrostists what done it

Mutant sharks with laser beams on their foreheads.

Or at the very least, ill-tempered Sea Bass.

 

[twinstead]

Yea, sea bass are usually mild-mannered, but get one pissed off and watch out

 

[fess]

You're right. I misremembered what I had read & said they saw the Otis scramble while returning from a training mission when,in fact,they saw the scramble from the ground while preparing for their training mission. However,that still puts me far ahead of the game than you! Who was,"quite certain" no training mission ever took off that day & therefore couldn't have seen the Otis scramble. Not only did they see the Otis scramble,But they DID take off & made it all the way to Whiskey 105 before being recalled.
So, in the scheme of things,I thing you got the worst of it in this little exchange.

Whoa there big boy. Before you start throwing a victory dance you might remember that I said I hadn’t read any articles stating that they took off on their training flight. And, up until you posted the History Commons article, I still hadn’t. Of course, I don’t read History Commons that much because, like you, it is quite contradictory.

But now that we know that they indeed did take off, did they actually fly their training mission? I would say no, they didn’t. I base this on the fact that when they were recalled, they couldn’t return to the base because they were over their max landing weight. They had to fly maneuvers to burn off fuel before they could land.