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seemingly unexplainable cases of the paranormal

As a final note, I am not saying that the paranormal explanation wins by default. I am saying, however, that cases do exist, in which it appears that there is no naturalistic explanation.


Yet you haven't been able to bring one these cases to our attention. Have any idea why that is?

These are the cases that are the greatest evidence for the paranormal, and therefore the cases I think we should focus on the most.


There is no objective evidence to support the claim that ghosts or poltergeists exist, no matter how desperately you would like it to be so. We, the skeptics, don't need to focus on anything. Indulging the believers only serves to perpetuate their belief. You, on the other hand, may focus on anything that makes you feel like this stuff is really possible, even in the face of a complete lack of any objective evidence. And from what we've seen so far, you will.

Here's a thought, find some objective evidence to support the claim that poltergeists exist. If you can't do that, maybe sitting around a campfire with a bunch of kids would be a more suitable venue for telling ghost stories.
 
I also found the "skeptical poltergeist" extremely suspicious. Who in their right mind would actually put up with that kind of activity? Why didn't they call a ghost hunter or (better yet) a skeptic? Apparantly, ghosts run like hell at the sight of one.
There is no need for a ghost hunter or a sceptic. Just an objective look at what's happening.

As an example, in the past I've had friends who swear blind that crazy unexplainable stuff happens to them "all the time". I've said on more than one occasion to more than one person, "if you take me along with you, I guarantee nothing unexplainable will happen". This isn't because my awesome anit-woo powerz negate any paranormal activity. It's because non of that stuff scares me and if I see something I don't undertsand, I don't sit/stand there gob smacked or run away, I head towards it to find out what it is.
Plenty times in my life I could have come away with a great 'unexplained' story, had I not gone to investigate.

That person may very well have lied, although the fact that he had other posts looks really odd. They may have also had their expectations molded like a piece of clay by movies like "the entity" or "poltergeist". Either explanation works, but the whole thing just feels weird.
Telling lies is only one option of course.
What usually happens is that researchers claim to be able to tell if someone is lying. They commonly say things like "this person had no reason to lie". Which is patently absurd.
Another is "This person isn't doing this for any financial gain so it can't be a hoax" Which again is patent nonsense.
Of course, the reason why lying isn't necessary is that people can genuinely believe they have experienced something when all along, they were being fooled either by a third party, or even by their own perception.

And yes, certainly the part in that story about the kitchen cupboard doors all being closed and then within seconds (though IIRC no one actually saw it happen), they opened themselves with a bang is exactly what happened in the movie Poltergeist.... go figure!
 
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And yes, certainly the part in that story about the kitchen cupboard doors all being closed and then within seconds (though IIRC no one actually saw it happen), they opened themselves with a bang is exactly what happened in the movie Poltergeist.... go figure!

Holy ◊◊◊◊! You are a sharp one! I didn't even realise that one!
 
And yes, certainly the part in that story about the kitchen cupboard doors all being closed and then within seconds (though IIRC no one actually saw it happen), they opened themselves with a bang is exactly what happened in the movie Poltergeist.... go figure!

Sixth Sense as well, I believe.
 
Sixth Sense as well, I believe.

Definitely in "The Sixth Sense", though no noise associated with it, just the mum returning to the kitchen to find all of the kitchen doors and drawers are open.

In "Poltergeist" I don't recall it happening. I think the reveal there was the kitchen chairs, which at first are annoyingly all left out from the table so mum pushes them in while grumbling about the kids, then when she next sees the table the chairs are all stacked on top of it.

*Gasp!*
 
See how memory is fallible?

My bad, it was indeed Sixth Sense. :)

I second that, having the same false memory. Hadn't watched either in a long time. But in all seriousness, I know what you mean regarding memory, and do hope my nagging curiosity on ghosts is tolerable. It's a field I knew nothing about when I came here, and still know little about today. I've found several useful resources, like Skepfeeds, bare normality, and all the valuable resources you've suggested. I am learning a lot.

From what I gather, afterlife research can be split into 5 or so parts: Mediumship, apparitions/hauntings, poltergiets, NDE's, and OBE's. NDE's and OBE's have been beaten to death in my opinion, and have produced no evidence at all. Mediumship is less popular, but from what I've read, it's findings are equally dubious. I guess these three sections are easier to debunk since they are falsifiable. Apparitions and poltergeists lack this quality, making investigating them more of a pain.

A bit unrelated, but anyone here familiar with the supposed "cheltenham apparition"? I've heard many claim it is the best documented case of an apparition. I was also surprised that there wasn't a thread here on the topic, considering how many useful threads there have been on other similiar topics.
 
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I lived in Cheltenham for twelve years (1970-1981), at a time when I was still very much into the paranormal and giving it considerable credence. I have never heard of the Cheltenham apparition.
 
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I live near what was once known as "The most haunted place in Britain" oooooer.

For business purposes I had to visit a client who lived extremely close to the site of all the supposed activity. In general conversation I raised with him the issue of the reputation of the place and asked if people around there actually believed in it these days.

He chuckled and said no, but that they still got plenty of 'courting couples' visiting the location as the thought of spooks and apparitions was considered to be a pretty good 'thigh opener'.

I believe the old boy was in his eighties at the time.
 
From what I gather, afterlife research can be split into 5 or so parts: Mediumship, apparitions/hauntings, poltergiets, NDE's, and OBE's. NDE's and OBE's have been beaten to death in my opinion, and have produced no evidence at all. Mediumship is less popular, but from what I've read, it's findings are equally dubious.
Mediumship was comprehensively debunked in the 1920s. It is and has always been a scam.

I guess these three sections are easier to debunk since they are falsifiable. Apparitions and poltergeists lack this quality, making investigating them more of a pain.
Also, they don't exist.
 
From your link, PixyMisa:
...In 1926, Harry Houdini hired H. P. Lovecraft and his friend C. M. Eddy, Jr., to write an entire book about debunking superstition, which was to be called The Cancer of Superstition.
Now THAT would have been an interesting book.
Has anyone ever read the notes HPL left?
 
I have a question...

So what do you do, if you experience something, and being a common sense logical kind of guy, you run through every possible normal/natural scenario you can think of, without even considering any *woo* stuff, but you cannot figure out the solution ?

I'll give you an example. I've only experienced a few instances in my 40 years of things which I guess could be described as paranormal/supernatural.

When I was going to college, my on campus housing happened to be in an old victorian house on the edge of campus. This is in Albany NY by the way.

So this guy Brian and I shared a room on the 2nd floor. I had known him since we were freshmen, and we'd become friends. It was a nice sized room that was more than adequate for two guy's to share, and have your own space.
We'd been living there for a few day's or possibly a week, when we had an odd occurrence.

One night, we'd been up studying, maybe BS-ing a little, and we called it a night. I'm guesstimating, but it was probably around midnight, or 1AM, possibly a smidge later. Out of nowhere, I suddenly hear footsteps walking across the floor above our room. Now typically that wouldnt be an issue.

As part of familiarizing ourselves with the house, our RA had taken us on a little tour and discussed saftey rules etc etc. One of the things he'd mentioned, was that the 3rd floor was off limits, as the rooms on the 3rd floor had not been renovated for use as dorm rooms. At the base of the stairs leading up to the 3rd floor, was a steel fire rated door. Not only was there a keyed lockset on the door, but they had installed one of those metal hasp things, and put a nice fat masterlock padlock on it.

So, the first time i heard the footsteps, i called over to him softly, asked if he was awake, did he just hear that etc. He answers in the affirmative, and we dont make much out of it.

Few days go by, and it happens again. Only this time we're still up, lights on and we both kind of look at each other like *Whiskey Tango Foxtrot*, but again we're not really too concerned about it. One of us jokes about it being a ghost, make some "woo woo" noises, share a laugh, then go back about our business.

To make an already long story shorter, over the course of two school years that i lived in that house, every so often at night you'd just hear what were clearly footsteps from the floor above. Kind of creepy because they were distinct enough, that you could hear the travel from one side of a room, and then sometimes back the other way- almost like someone pacing.

Three other young men who had rooms on the 2nd floor had experienced the same thing numerous times. At one point we got the RA involved because we were convinced there was a hobo or someone living on the 3rd floor.

Now its noteable, that 1) as mentioned, the only entrance to the 3rd floor was regularly locked off, and inaccessible, 2) there was no exterior fire escape or ladder going to the third floor. For fire egress purposes they had installed those crappy chain ladder in a box thing underneath the window sills. So there was no conceivable way for a person to get up there.

After we had bugged him about it for a while, he finally relented, after giving us the same kind of look you're probably giving me right now. He unlocked the door, and several of us went up to the third floor, at least a tiny bit wondering if we'd actually find someone up there. Of course there wasnt. What we found were similar rooms to those on the 2nd floor, but with the exception that they had not been cleaned up and repainted like the rooms downstairs. There was a centrail hallway that ran from the front of the house to the back, and the rooms were off of that. The room I stayed in downstairs, was under the front room/3rd floor, and the floor was not carpeted like the hallway.
The 3rd floor was finished off, no exposed framing or anything, and there were no signs of any good sized critters running around, no open windows or holes in the walls etc.

Look, if you've ever lived in an old wood framed house, you know what it sounds like when someones walking around upstairs, especially when you can hear floorboards making little creaky noises and "talking" as they bear weight.

I dont know how many times it happened, and I'd jump up and go out into the hall to look at that door, and make sure the lock was still on it, and that no one had gone upstairs.

It really got to me for a while, because I'd always been, and still am, skeptical when it comes to ghost stories, and paranormal stuff in general.

At some point, it just became commonplace. If I heard it, I just ignored it and went to sleep, or continued my work, or whatever I happened to be doing... There were a couple of times that it was heard during the day, but mostly/normally later at night. It's possible that's because at that point the TV/radio would have been shut off, and things were more quiet.

So, who knows... It's just something weird that happened 20 years ago at this point, and I've never been able to figure out the origin of those footsteps.

I'm not in the least embarassed to admit this, and all I've ever been able to do with this is just file it away in the "Unsolved Mysteries" folder in the old brain bucket.

It can be frustrating not being able to get to the bottom of something like that. I know its been something i've thought of and considered from time to time over the last 20 years, and it still baffles me.

-TheShadow-
 
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I have lived in old houses most of my life, and do right now. It is amazing how footstep-like creaking boards can be. Whether it is from the house settling, from wood expanding and contracting due to temperature, wind causing something to move, or something else, I can't tell you for your case.

I can tell you, however, that there is nothing in your story that even hints at the need to jump to a supernatural explanation. I cannot count the number of times someone with a similar story has insisted that "I know what an old house sounds like, and this definitely wasn't that!" and then been proven to be mistaken.

Old houses sound like old houses, but they also sound like everything else.
 
In my experience, believers like to pretend to be skeptics
Ummm... A better question would be: Who actively claims *not* to be a skeptic?
Do you ever hear a story starting with
"I'm a gullable moron"?

Obviously it would start with "I'm not the type of person to just fall for these things"

Sixth Sense as well, I believe.
Actually it was in Paranormal Activity 2 too
And considering it's the most memorable scene in the movie (there was a recent poll on a forum) and much more recent in headlines (#4 just came out) I'd bet my money on that one.

But overall, Andyman409, this whole thing is actually quite common. Common cultural elements which includes movies and television affect all sorts of woo imagery. From alien depeictions, conspiracy theories, demonic imagery and yes even poltergeists. In fact quite often what people describe has appeared in this or that movie. It's no different than people who have NDE describe only their cultural influence.

And since I brought up Paranormal Activity, this thread reminded me of a discussion in one of the boards about the movie series. It was so hilarious.
People kept saying that some weird stuff like that really happens in real life and that it's great the movie helped bring it to life.
Then I asked them how on earth is it possible for all of them to say stupid stories like the crap they spewed but not a single one of them had actually been caught on tape like in the movies.

First there was silence, some tried to give the example of ghost hunters
and some started rambling into conspiracies about government intervention
and both were supporting each other.

They never thought why the government would go to great length to supress evidence but on the other hand would allow a show like ghost hunters to air in prime time?!? :rolleyes:
 
TheShadow said:
It can be frustrating not being able to get to the bottom of something like that. I know its been something i've thought of and considered from time to time over the last 20 years, and it still baffles me.

-TheShadow-


Popular culture informs us it's usually the janitor and they would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids!

Another possible explanation is that sound sometimes travels and maybe the sound wasn't coming from where you perceived it to be coming from.
 
Actually it was in Paranormal Activity 2 too
And considering it's the most memorable scene in the movie (there was a recent poll on a forum) and much more recent in headlines (#4 just came out) I'd bet my money on that one.
The thread linked to, containing the story was from back in 2006.

Sixth Sense was released 1999, Poltergeist 1982.


I reminds me of a story I heard from UFOlogist about his alien craft experience where he pulled up at a level crossing and had contact with a brightly lit hovering craft which left one side of his face burned... All this supposedly happened only 2 years after the exact same scene appeared in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
 
I just opened up the warehouse portion of a DC where I work; there's a unit next door and we're separated by just two layers of drywall. They work 24/7 over there and the sounds of skids dropping and forklifts working make it seem like there's a ghost crew toiling. Especially spooky (for some) at 90 thousand square feet lit only by two night lights.

Of course it's just next door but during the night many a security guard locked in the offices imagines that ghost crew as he stares at the security cameras to determine the source of all that noise. You'd think once they discover what they're actually hearing they'd breath a sigh of relief, but not all of them.

One of them refused to accompany me into the warehouse to check it out, even with all the lights on.
 
I have a question...

So what do you do, if you experience something, and being a common sense logical kind of guy, you run through every possible normal/natural scenario you can think of, without even considering any *woo* stuff, but you cannot figure out the solution ?

I'll give you an example. I've only experienced a few instances in my 40 years of things which I guess could be described as paranormal/supernatural.

When I was going to college, my on campus housing happened to be in an old victorian house on the edge of campus. This is in Albany NY by the way.

So this guy Brian and I shared a room on the 2nd floor. I had known him since we were freshmen, and we'd become friends. It was a nice sized room that was more than adequate for two guy's to share, and have your own space.
We'd been living there for a few day's or possibly a week, when we had an odd occurrence.

One night, we'd been up studying, maybe BS-ing a little, and we called it a night. I'm guesstimating, but it was probably around midnight, or 1AM, possibly a smidge later. Out of nowhere, I suddenly hear footsteps walking across the floor above our room. Now typically that wouldnt be an issue.

As part of familiarizing ourselves with the house, our RA had taken us on a little tour and discussed saftey rules etc etc. One of the things he'd mentioned, was that the 3rd floor was off limits, as the rooms on the 3rd floor had not been renovated for use as dorm rooms. At the base of the stairs leading up to the 3rd floor, was a steel fire rated door. Not only was there a keyed lockset on the door, but they had installed one of those metal hasp things, and put a nice fat masterlock padlock on it.

So, the first time i heard the footsteps, i called over to him softly, asked if he was awake, did he just hear that etc. He answers in the affirmative, and we dont make much out of it.

Few days go by, and it happens again. Only this time we're still up, lights on and we both kind of look at each other like *Whiskey Tango Foxtrot*, but again we're not really too concerned about it. One of us jokes about it being a ghost, make some "woo woo" noises, share a laugh, then go back about our business.

To make an already long story shorter, over the course of two school years that i lived in that house, every so often at night you'd just hear what were clearly footsteps from the floor above. Kind of creepy because they were distinct enough, that you could hear the travel from one side of a room, and then sometimes back the other way- almost like someone pacing.

Three other young men who had rooms on the 2nd floor had experienced the same thing numerous times. At one point we got the RA involved because we were convinced there was a hobo or someone living on the 3rd floor.

Now its noteable, that 1) as mentioned, the only entrance to the 3rd floor was regularly locked off, and inaccessible, 2) there was no exterior fire escape or ladder going to the third floor. For fire egress purposes they had installed those crappy chain ladder in a box thing underneath the window sills. So there was no conceivable way for a person to get up there.

After we had bugged him about it for a while, he finally relented, after giving us the same kind of look you're probably giving me right now. He unlocked the door, and several of us went up to the third floor, at least a tiny bit wondering if we'd actually find someone up there. Of course there wasnt. What we found were similar rooms to those on the 2nd floor, but with the exception that they had not been cleaned up and repainted like the rooms downstairs. There was a centrail hallway that ran from the front of the house to the back, and the rooms were off of that. The room I stayed in downstairs, was under the front room/3rd floor, and the floor was not carpeted like the hallway.
The 3rd floor was finished off, no exposed framing or anything, and there were no signs of any good sized critters running around, no open windows or holes in the walls etc.

Look, if you've ever lived in an old wood framed house, you know what it sounds like when someones walking around upstairs, especially when you can hear floorboards making little creaky noises and "talking" as they bear weight.

I dont know how many times it happened, and I'd jump up and go out into the hall to look at that door, and make sure the lock was still on it, and that no one had gone upstairs.

It really got to me for a while, because I'd always been, and still am, skeptical when it comes to ghost stories, and paranormal stuff in general.

At some point, it just became commonplace. If I heard it, I just ignored it and went to sleep, or continued my work, or whatever I happened to be doing... There were a couple of times that it was heard during the day, but mostly/normally later at night. It's possible that's because at that point the TV/radio would have been shut off, and things were more quiet.

So, who knows... It's just something weird that happened 20 years ago at this point, and I've never been able to figure out the origin of those footsteps.

I'm not in the least embarassed to admit this, and all I've ever been able to do with this is just file it away in the "Unsolved Mysteries" folder in the old brain bucket.

It can be frustrating not being able to get to the bottom of something like that. I know its been something i've thought of and considered from time to time over the last 20 years, and it still baffles me.

-TheShadow-

Old houses have a tendency to make strange noises, so something mundance cant be ruled out. Of course, they could've be from a guy who liked to stay up late. It hardly takes any imagination to figure out what a college student would want to do late at night. How the person/ sounds got up there would be the tricky part, unless they were the ones who had access to the rooms.
 

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