The crucifixion of Jesus Christ

[pakeha]

Thanks for your reply, PC.
Are you saying the medium never claimed to be channeling Jesus?

ETA
Are you saying you deduced the medium was channeling Jesus?

 

[abaddon]

Jesus was crucified and died on August 17, 1 BC. The equivalent date of this in the Jewish calendar is Av 30, 3760. We will see that the Jewish calendar was adopted from the Babylonian calendar during the exile of the Jews to Babylon. What do you think was the calendar that the Israelites were using from their departure from Egypt?

This came from Encyclopaedia Britannica, Volume 15, page 465, column 2:

“After the conquest of Jerusalem (587 BC), the Babylonians introduced their cyclic calendar and the reckoning of their regnal years from Nisanu 1, about the spring equinox. The Jews now had a finite calendar with a New Year’s day, they adopted the Babylonian month names, which they continue to use. From 587 BC until AD 70, the Jewish civil year was Babylonian, except for the period of Alexander the Great and the Ptolemies (322-200 BC), when the Macedonian calendar was used.”

The Babylonian and the Jewish month names and the equivalent month in the Gregorian calendar:

Babylonian calendar Jewish calendar Gregorian calendar
Nisanu Nisan March-April
Ayaru Iyyar April-May
Simanu Sivan May-June
Du’uzu Tammuz June-July
Abu Av July-August
Ululu Elul August-September
Tashritu Tishri September-October
Arakhsamna Heshvan October-November
Kislimu Kislev November-December
Tebetu Tevet December-January
Shabatu Shevat January-February
Adaru Adar February-March

Intercalation
Babylonian calendar
“The month Adaru II was intercalated six times within the 19-year cycle but never in the year that was 17th of the cycle, when Ululu II was inserted.”

Jewish calendar
The month of Adar II or Adar Sheni was intercalated seven times on the third, sixth, eighth, eleventh, fourteenth, seventeenth, nineteenth years in the 19-year Metonic cycle.


“The Jewish adoption of Babylonian calendar customs dates from the period of the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC.”

And?

Who cares when the mythical sky daddy killed himself, but then got better?

 

[Astreja]

“That is why Jesus allowed to be crucified to show how much man has to bear sufferings."

Very silly theology. One person's suffering cannot do anything for other people.

Likewise, man should bear sufferings until his death.

Absolutely not. Humanity should resist suffering and try to relieve it at every possible opportunity, both for oneself, and for others. There is no inherent nobility in suffering. None. Absolutely none.

Jesus also showed that He resurrected.

Unsupported assertion. "Jesus" wrote nothing at all, and everything we have concerning him is hearsay and probably mythological. I assert that if ever there was such a person, when he died he stayed dead. If the Romans executed him, his bones are in one of the mass graves where other executed criminals were thrown after their deaths.

Likewise, that is what will happen to man if man bears the suffering, and bears the hardship until he dies, this man will live again to be with God.”

I disagree with this statement with every fiber of My being. I assert that no man, woman or child will ever "live again" or "be with God," and that the silence of the grave awaits everyone, without exception.

Enjoy life while you have a life to enjoy. Use it or lose it.

 

[Meadmaker]

Jesus was crucified and died on August 17, 1 BC. The equivalent date of this in the Jewish calendar is Av 30, 3760. We will see that the Jewish calendar was adopted from the Babylonian calendar during the exile of the Jews to Babylon. What do you think was the calendar that the Israelites were using from their departure from Egypt?

This came from Encyclopaedia Britannica, Volume 15, page 465, column 2:

“After the conquest of Jerusalem (587 BC), the Babylonians introduced their cyclic calendar and the reckoning of their regnal years from Nisanu 1, about the spring equinox. The Jews now had a finite calendar with a New Year’s day, they adopted the Babylonian month names, which they continue to use. From 587 BC until AD 70, the Jewish civil year was Babylonian, except for the period of Alexander the Great and the Ptolemies (322-200 BC), when the Macedonian calendar was used.”

The Babylonian and the Jewish month names and the equivalent month in the Gregorian calendar:

Babylonian calendar Jewish calendar Gregorian calendar
Nisanu Nisan March-April
Ayaru Iyyar April-May
Simanu Sivan May-June
Du’uzu Tammuz June-July
Abu Av July-August
Ululu Elul August-September
Tashritu Tishri September-October
Arakhsamna Heshvan October-November
Kislimu Kislev November-December
Tebetu Tevet December-January
Shabatu Shevat January-February
Adaru Adar February-March

Intercalation
Babylonian calendar
“The month Adaru II was intercalated six times within the 19-year cycle but never in the year that was 17th of the cycle, when Ululu II was inserted.”

Jewish calendar
The month of Adar II or Adar Sheni was intercalated seven times on the third, sixth, eighth, eleventh, fourteenth, seventeenth, nineteenth years in the 19-year Metonic cycle.


“The Jewish adoption of Babylonian calendar customs dates from the period of the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC.”

Yes. Very well. All true.

We don't know exactly what calendar they used before the Babylonian conquest. However, we know a little bit about that calendar. We know that it had at least seven months, because Passover was to be celebrated in the first month, and Rosh Hashannah/Yom Kippur/Sukkoth were all to be celebrated in the seventh month. That means six months had to be between the two sets of holidays, which means that if Passover was during AV, Yom Kippur and the others would have to have been in Shevat, six months later.

One thing I don't understand about this whole theory of your is why you are perfectly willing to put Passover in the summer, but you won't move the rest of the holidays along with it. It seems somehow significant that instead of Shavuot, the ascension occurred during the Sukkhot. Why? If Passover moved around the circle of the year, surely all the other holidays did as well, wouldn't they? At least all of the holidays mentioned in the Torah, because they would all be numbered using the pre-exilic calendar.

So, Passover is in August and fifty days later (which is what Pentecost means), Shavuot happens in October, and the miracle of the Holy Spirit is right where the New Testament says it is, at Pentecost. It's just that the Bible didn't mention the fact that those holidays moved around.

Of course, the Christians messed things up royally when they set the date for Easter, thinking somehow that Passover was always in Nisan, but you wouldn't expect the goyim to understand the Jewish calendar.

 

[Akhenaten]

Jesus was crucified and died on August 17, 1 BC.

Neither you nor anyone else knows this.

Everything you say, either leading to or based upon this assertion, is speculative nonsense.

 

[Akhenaten]

@pakeha, #195

You are correct, pakeha. The body of Ka Apaz is used by the spirit of Jesus in talking to the people.

Fortunately that's not what Pakeha thinks at all, because it's rubbish.

I have said that the spirit of Jesus, who we address as Ama, hints that He is Jesus. He does not say, ‘I am Jesus. Believe me.’ That is why it took me eleven years (1983-1994) of doubting before I believed that He is Jesus Christ.

Took you 11 years to talk yourself into a delusion, you mean.

Quite frankly, I think you've been getting off lightly by having people put most of the blame for this long-running farce on the old crone. To my way of thinking it's mainly down to you making up things and implying that she said them that's the real source of all this malarky.

Let me add to what I said before why in 1994, I believed that He must be Jesus. In 1992, the Aristean calendar was inspired to me. In 1993, I realized that my mother Gregoria is related to the calendar we presently use. In 1994, I realized that the mother of my mother, i.e. my maternal grandmother, Julita, is also related to the calendar. The predecessor of the present calendar is the Julian calendar. Was I already born to name my grandmother and mother such names?

Is there anything too ridiculous for you to believe in? Anything at all?

Mind you, I'm addressing this question to the persona known as PeaceCrusader and not to the actual person writing all this nonsense.

Gregoria??? Julita??? The Pontius Pilate golem was bad enough, but these bogus names are deep inside shark-jumping territory.

And now, I still am not sure when the Aristean calendar would be implemented.

Hell will freeze over first, as the saying goes.

As I said, the spirit of Ama revealed to old members the May 23 birth and August 17 death of Jesus.

No, you just made it up and then invented a unique and absurdly incorrect method of interpreting various documents to make your screwball ideas seem plausible to other bleevers.

I first heard these in 1983 but only started to check if there is any ring of truth in them in 1999.

It's hard to believe that after almost 30 years you have yet to get anything right.

 

[Blue Mountain]

@Rincewind, #132

Jesus was 6 feet 8 inches tall. He had only two feet. So only two nails were driven through His feet and not 14 nails.

31415926.5358

@PeaceCrusader, #140

As I've pointed out before, this is manifestly ridiculous. In no way did Jesus stand out from the crowd like that. If he did, why did Judas have to point him out to the guard sent to arrest him?

 

[pakeha]

^
Yes, it's one of the many oddities of PC's belief system.

@pakeha, #195

You are correct, pakeha. The body of Ka Apaz is used by the spirit of Jesus in talking to the people. I have said that the spirit of Jesus, who we address as Ama, hints that He is Jesus. ...

PC, I don't for a moment accept your faith healer cum medium is channeling Jesus, for a number of reasons, principally because I do not accept mediumship as anything other than a con, conscious or not.
I know 'possession' is tradition in many primitive cultures world-wide, but feel it is something best delegated to the past, like animal sacrifice.

There is not one transcript or audio file you've posted up which doesn't testify to the crude deception of the medium.
Not one.

As for the notion this medium channels Jesus, it is farcical to imagine for a moment the Resurrected Christ would pump out stories of a giantess collecting corpses in the the UK.

But even so, your OP is about a calendar you have devised.
Meadmaker is patiently explaining the nature of your misunderstanding of the Hebrew calendar and I am repeatedly asking you to explain why yours should supplant the ones already in use, particularly in the Islamic world.

...

One thing I don't understand about this whole theory of your is why you are perfectly willing to put Passover in the summer, but you won't move the rest of the holidays along with it. It seems somehow significant that instead of Shavuot, the ascension occurred during the Sukkhot. Why? If Passover moved around the circle of the year, surely all the other holidays did as well, wouldn't they? At least all of the holidays mentioned in the Torah, because they would all be numbered using the pre-exilic calendar. ...

I've never thought about calendars much and I've learned a lot from the discussion, thanks to posts like the above.

...Quite frankly, I think you've been getting off lightly by having people put most of the blame for this long-running farce on the old crone. ...

O Pharaoh, I see what you mean, but I would ask you to keep in mind this particular medium has been working her pitch for over 50 years and it is most likely PC is simply one more of her followers.
From my own experience in the sordid world of channeling, the symbiosis between medium and bleevers is a poison most potent.
And the competition between bleevers to show the world just how true the communications can be fierce, indeed.
After all, PC has been here at JREF even trying to set up a MDC protocol and failed, poor fella, because the medium decided against it.

Whatever calendar system we use however, today is Leif Erikson Day and I toast all readers with a sincere Skol!

 

[Astreja]

Whatever calendar system we use however, today is Leif Erikson Day and I toast all readers with a sincere Skol!

Excellent! Hold the Dom; this calls for some mead. (wanders down to basement and brings up a few swing-top bottles of Her homemade champagne mead) The recipe, for interested brewers: EC-1118, 10-12 Litres of spring water, a tablespoon of acid mix, and 3 kg of liquid clover honey.

IIRC, My own family tree meanders through that of the Erikson/Erik the Red clan at some point. Unlike the shape-shifting silliness spouted by sheet-shrouded seance-scammer Ka Apaz, there is a consistency to the Leif Erikson history. It doesn't depend unduly on claims of the supernatural, and there are actual archeological sites including the Newfoundland site at L'Anse aux Meadows. (In fact, a paternal cousin of Mine recently visited L'Anse aux Meadows, and if I ever travel to the East Coast I may visit there Myself.)

You see, Aristeo, this is the proper way to do history. You don't spend 11 precious years of your life listening to silly wiffle from a very dubious source until you convince yourself that black is white (and subsequently get run down at a zebra crossing). You enlist actual experts in archaeology and anthropology and linguistics and other disciplines, and you go looking for actual physical evidence, and you ask your panel of experts if it's consistent with the story that you're trying to substantiate.

And this, Aristeo, is why your postings on JREF are regularly being ridiculed and torn apart. You are an army of one, presenting us with an alternate version of a myth -- A myth that is even subject to scrutiny in its more familiar, more popular form.

The embellishments you have added to the Jesus story are bizarre in the extreme. They are completely unconvincing, and it certainly doesn't help your cause when you quote your own website as a "source." Any one of us could imagine up a prophet, put words in his or her mouth, claim that those words were the words of "Ama" or Oðinn or the Invisible Pink Unicorn (mHhhnbs!), and "report" the alleged divine words on a website. Would you be convinced by such a website? If you answer "No," then please consider that this is one of the reasons that we do not believe you or the contents of your website.

 

[Akhenaten]

O Pharaoh, I see what you mean, but I would ask you to keep in mind this particular medium has been working her pitch for over 50 years and it is most likely PC is simply one more of her followers.
From my own experience in the sordid world of channeling, the symbiosis between medium and bleevers is a poison most potent.
And the competition between bleevers to show the world just how true the communications can be fierce, indeed.
After all, PC has been here at JREF even trying to set up a MDC protocol and failed, poor fella, because the medium decided against it.

Wise words as always, my friend.

I shouldn't allow the bizarre twists and turns in this ongoing saga to make me see mischief where there's only affliction.

My thanks for the reminder.

Whatever calendar system we use however, today is Leif Erikson Day and I toast all readers with a sincere Skol!

 

[pakeha]

Pharaoh is generous as always.

@Astreja!
Thanks for coming up with the perfect spiritual inspiration for this thread!
A barrel of mead has been cast into the sea for your pleasure and that of your ancestors.

It was the ancestor of the Concord grape which inspired the name of Vinland, was it not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitis_labrusca

Back to the OP-
Will we have to change the dating of events in the Roman Empire to concord with your calendar, PC?
Otherwise, how do we concord the story of the golem Pontius Pilate with your dating system?

 

[Meadmaker]

Excellent! Hold the Dom; this calls for some mead.

I'll drink to that!

 

[dafydd]

I'll drink to that!

Make mine a metheglin!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2012/feb/15/how-to-make-metheglin

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Yes. Very well. All true.

We don't know exactly what calendar they used before the Babylonian conquest. However, we know a little bit about that calendar. We know that it had at least seven months, because Passover was to be celebrated in the first month, and Rosh Hashannah/Yom Kippur/Sukkoth were all to be celebrated in the seventh month. That means six months had to be between the two sets of holidays, which means that if Passover was during AV, Yom Kippur and the others would have to have been in Shevat, six months later.

One thing I don't understand about this whole theory of your is why you are perfectly willing to put Passover in the summer, but you won't move the rest of the holidays along with it. It seems somehow significant that instead of Shavuot, the ascension occurred during the Sukkhot. Why? If Passover moved around the circle of the year, surely all the other holidays did as well, wouldn't they? At least all of the holidays mentioned in the Torah, because they would all be numbered using the pre-exilic calendar.

So, Passover is in August and fifty days later (which is what Pentecost means), Shavuot happens in October, and the miracle of the Holy Spirit is right where the New Testament says it is, at Pentecost. It's just that the Bible didn't mention the fact that those holidays moved around.

Of course, the Christians messed things up royally when they set the date for Easter, thinking somehow that Passover was always in Nisan, but you wouldn't expect the goyim to understand the Jewish calendar.

20121012.2250

@Meadmaker, #204

After the Babylonian exile, the Israelites then were using two kinds of calendars: the purely lunar calendar which they had been using since their departure from Egypt, and a lunisolar calendar which they adopted from the Babylonians. They used these calendars until the reformation of the Jewish calendar in 358/359 AD, including during the crucifixion of Jesus in 1 BC, when the merged the two calendars together into one with modifications which they have been using until these days.

The festivals, at least, in the purely lunar calendar were Passover, Feast of the Unleavened Bread, and the Feast of the Dedication. The first two were held on the first month of the year, and the third, during the seventh month.

The festivals, at least, in the lunisolar calendar were Rosh Hashanah (New Year’s Day, Tishri 1), Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement, Tishri 10), and Sukkoth (Feast of Tabernacles, Tishri 15).

King Solomon, about 1000 BC, made the following assignments: 1 Kings 4:27 for the provision of victual for the king and his household, and 1 Chronicles 27:1 for the guards. He also designated names for each of the twelve months, but only three were mentioned in the Holy Bible. They were Zif, the second month (1 Kings 6:1, 37); Ethanim, the seventh month (1 Kings 8:2); and Bul, the eighth month (1 Kings 6:38). There is no mention of a thirteenth month for it did not exist then.

No, Meadmaker, the festivals were not six months apart since the Israelites were using two kinds of calendars. Before the Babylonian exile during the seventh century BC, yes, all festivals moved around the circle of the year. But when Jesus was crucified in 1 BC, the Israelites were using two kinds of calendars.

The Christians did not mess things up. They did the right thing. In 325 AD, they set Easter to be held in March or April, in the month of Nisan in the Jewish calendar. The Israelites followed suit in 358/359 AD when they set Passover in Nisan.

Emperor Constantine wrote that he did not want anything to do with the Israelites. He also said that the Israelites were celebrating Passover twice a year. This is from time to time only since the Romans were using a solar calendar with 365/366 days in a year whereas the Israelites were using a purely lunar calendar with 354/355 days in a lunar year where Passover Festival was celebrated.

Just remember that the Israelites were using two kinds of calendars when Jesus was crucified in 1 BC.

 

[Dancing David]

PC,
passover always falls on the first full moon after the spring equinox, so no matter how you and your alleged spirit consultation argue, Jesus if crucified was crucified in teh spring. So something like Apr. 6

 

[pakeha]

The Passover begins on the 15th day of the month of Nisan, which typically falls in March or April of the Gregorian calendar. Passover is a spring festival, so the 14th day of Nisan begins on the night of a full moon after the northern vernal equinox.[citation needed] To ensure that Passover did not start before spring, the tradition in ancient Israel held that the first day of Nisan would not start until the barley was ripe, being the test for the onset of spring.[9] If the barley was not ripe, or various other phenomena[10] indicated that spring was not yet imminent, an intercalary month (Adar II) would be added. However, since at least the 4th century, the date has been fixed mathematically.[11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover

It's no mystery, PC.
This link will give you the dates of Passover from 11 BCE to 10CE
http://www.observadores-cometas.com/cometas/Star/Passover.html

 

[Meadmaker]

20121012.2250

@Meadmaker, #204

After the Babylonian exile, the Israelites then were using two kinds of calendars: the purely lunar calendar which they had been using since their departure from Egypt, and a lunisolar calendar which they adopted from the Babylonians. They used these calendars until the reformation of the Jewish calendar in 358/359 AD, including during the crucifixion of Jesus in 1 BC, when the merged the two calendars together into one with modifications which they have been using until these days.

The festivals, at least, in the purely lunar calendar were Passover, Feast of the Unleavened Bread, and the Feast of the Dedication. The first two were held on the first month of the year, and the third, during the seventh month.

The festivals, at least, in the lunisolar calendar were Rosh Hashanah (New Year’s Day, Tishri 1), Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement, Tishri 10), and Sukkoth (Feast of Tabernacles, Tishri 15).

Where do you get this stuff? Leviticus 23 says that the Passover/Unleavened Bread shall be in the first month, and that same chapter says that Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkoth will be in the seventh month. This was all pre-exile, and no mention of Tishri.

Dedication (Hanukah) is not in the Torah. It is referenced in the New Testament, although it merely says it was "in winter".

It is also referenced in the Book of Maccabees, which is held as non-canonical for most non-Catholic Christians.


And the idea that the Jews copied the date of Passover from the date of Easter? That's just weird.

 

[Akhenaten]

And the idea that the Jews copied the date of Passover from the date of Easter? That's just weird.

Sounds like one those bedtime stories that Grandma Julita used to tell little Gregoria.

 

[Craig B]

Where do you get this stuff? Leviticus 23 says that the Passover/Unleavened Bread shall be in the first month, and that same chapter says that Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Sukkoth will be in the seventh month. This was all pre-exile, and no mention of Tishri.

Dedication (Hanukah) is not in the Torah. It is referenced in the New Testament, although it merely says it was "in winter".

It is also referenced in the Book of Maccabees, which is held as non-canonical for most non-Catholic Christians.

And non-canonical for Jews. It is mentioned also by Josephus. Hanukkah isn't in the Torah for the good reason that it celebrates an event that took place in 165 BCE. If the Jews used a purely lunar calendar only before the exile, then the date of Hanukkah can never have been expressed in it, because the festival didn't then exist!

 

[hurdygurdy]

And now, I still am not sure when the Aristean calendar would be implemented.

Ka Apaz told you that it would be implemented in the year 2001. Too bad that was another of her false prophecies.