Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[westprog]

A man questioning just where his male privilege is because he's working a crappy job and paying child support for a child he didn't want becomes either a MRA activist or an anti-feminist, not just some guy who's ended up with the short end of the stick, so to speak.

The whole "male privilege" issue is almost a benchmark for them. Present solid data to question the concept, and if they can't provoke a reason for banning, you end up just being ignored. I went there to debate the concept, but found that actual debate on issues is not what goes on there.

 

[qayak]

Example ? That whole Amy Surly thing. I read her intro on Skeptchick where she's described as "kicks ass on a daily basis" and end up wondering just who's ass she's kicking and whether some of those asses she's kicking just might be kicking back.

I had the same thought when I read her bio. Exactly how seriously can you take someone who claims to be a badassed daily kicker of ass when she has to leave a conference early because of a t-shirt that has nothing to do with her? Then I read about her and her artwork in Skeptical Inquirer magazine.

She just comes off as a manipulative waste of humanity.

 

[Stout]

The whole "male privilege" issue is almost a benchmark for them. Present solid data to question the concept, and if they can't provoke a reason for banning, you end up just being ignored. I went there to debate the concept, but found that actual debate on issues is not what goes on there.

The existence of male privilege has to be taken as a given, it is a benchmark for feminism in general and,no, it's never open for discussion. A plussers will just "accuse" you of privilege and snark you to the point of saying something inflammatory leading, of course, to the ban hammer fro not getting it.

It may be interesting to try something like being a cross dresser. Not a full time transgender, but a weekend woman, so to speak. Someone who can't out themselves due to employment constraints, maybe needing that good paying job to pay the court ordered child support resulting from your wife divorcing you when she found you wearing her clothes..something like that,

Such a character would obviously be giving up male privilege albeit temporarily and entering the ranks of the oppressed on a somewhat voluntary basis being driven by compulsions that resulted from....I dunno society ? aneurotypicality ? trauma ?

Writing as the alter miss, I suppose one could claim discrimination from bith the gay and transgender communities much in the way bisexuals ( used ? ) to claim discrimination from the gay community for not being able to make up their minds.

 

[Stout]

I had the same thought when I read her bio. Exactly how seriously can you take someone who claims to be a badassed daily kicker of ass when she has to leave a conference early because of a t-shirt that has nothing to do with her? Then I read about her and her artwork in Skeptical Inquirer magazine.

She just comes off as a manipulative waste of humanity.

I didn't get that far into her ( wow could that be a double entendre or what ) so I'm unfamiliar with the t-shirt issue. I was more curious about the concept of fake jewelery and how such a product could possibly exist outside the realm of costume jewelry and cause any sort of controversy at all.

I'll look into the t-shirt thing later.

Canadian Thanksgiving..woot..let the feasting begin

 

[qayak]

Canadian Thanksgiving..woot..let the feasting begin

We are at my stepdaughter and her husbands' place on Vancouver Island waiting for our feast to begin in a couple of hours. Spent some time at the Pumpkin Patch with our grandson picking out pumpkins, petting the goats, chickens and geese, and generally enjoying the fantastic fall weather (20C).

 

[WillyWonka]

We are at my stepdaughter and her husbands' place on Vancouver Island waiting for our feast to begin in a couple of hours. Spent some time at the Pumpkin Patch with our grandson picking out pumpkins, petting the goats, chickens and geese, and generally enjoying the fantastic fall weather (20C).

I am a Canadian but now I am in Chicago having finished the Chicago marathon. I am a bit older than PZ, but would take him on a road race of any length up to 50 miles.

 

[Fascination]

A fun way you can find out what's the most important topics to the Atheism Plus people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu_6dt4Eo2Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Fascination]

I haven't seen anyone mention the kerfluffle between Surly Amy, Melody Hensley and Sara Mayhew. The hypocrisy of Amy and Melody frankly shocked me in this instance but I guess it shouldn't have after the last year. Surly Amy and Melody Hensley tweeted gendered insults to Sara after she wrote a post about how much she admired Harriet Hall...the nerve!!!! After it all went down, Melody and Surly took down their tweets but issued no apologies.
This is a good link describing what happened:
http://athmorality.blogspot.com/2012/09/feminists-attacking-women.html?m=1
This is a post by Sara Mayhew about it:
http://www.saramayhew.com/blog/index.php/2012/09/i-am-not-a-skepchick/

 

[Diogenes]

...
You know, I never knew the whole atheist community thing existed. I'm not a blogger and don't read any. Sure, the occasional link but the only time I've run across PZ is when he's referenced in these forums.

As of the start of this thread I've clicked on a billion ( approximate estimate ) links/blogs and come to the conclusion that the greater atheist community is better off without extremist politics hijacking the agenda....

I had no idea, either, starting reading things through PZ's facebook posts as I'd been kinda following him on atheism and biology-related posts. I read some of the "elevatorgate" stuff and at first accepted the bias I was fed having never participated in that community. Then I started to learn what things like "MRA" stand for and saw lots of vitriolic posts against "them". Eventually I noticed that the firebrand-waving started to smell like hyperbole and all the usual fallacies we're all familiar with on the Internet.

I looked up "social justice" and read about this "privilege" concept...then found where the "catfairy" "otherkin" types apparently hang out...and the concept of "spoon depletion". Hm. In my apparently simple opinion it just looks like a bunch of people living in a shared, enabling, self-feeding delusion. Though I do genetics on fungus rather than any kind of fancy philosophy or social sciences, so, I'm sticking to that.

Even associating normal politics with atheism I can't see going anywhere in the current political atmosphere in the US, sadly. The fight against religion creeping into more public institutions looks a lot harder than it should be.

 

[Mr. Scott]

I didn't get that far into her ( wow could that be a double entendre or what ) so I'm unfamiliar with the t-shirt issue. I was more curious about the concept of fake jewelery and how such a product could possibly exist outside the realm of costume jewelry and cause any sort of controversy at all.

I'll look into the t-shirt thing later.

Canadian Thanksgiving..woot..let the feasting begin

I think this was the T-shirt that set it off, worn by Dr. Harriet Hall, who's prominence in the pre-plus movement must have proved extra hurtful for the plus party:

 

[Beelzebuddy]

and the concept of "spoon depletion"

I'm curious to find out what this is. Google has nothing. Have our natural spoon resources been tapped unsustainably? Are we past Peak Spoon?

 

[qayak]

I'm curious to find out what this is. Google has nothing. Have our natural spoon resources been tapped unsustainably? Are we past Peak Spoon?

A+ is trying to reduce the amount of male-female cuddling. They find it leads to understanding and closer relationships which they are completely against.

 

[Fascination]

I think this was the T-shirt that set it off, worn by Dr. Harriet Hall, who's prominence in the pre-plus movement must have proved extra hurtful for the plus party:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/6736506640f539570.jpg[/qimg]

Yup, that's the t-shirt. Now that I've seen it again, I am sure Ophelia Benson was totally justified in comparing the "abuse" Amy suffered at TAM to the horrors inflicted upon Jews in Nazi Germany.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

I looked up "social justice" and read about this "privilege" concept...then found where the "catfairy" "otherkin" types apparently hang out...and the concept of "spoon depletion". Hm. In my apparently simple opinion it just looks like a bunch of people living in a shared, enabling, self-feeding delusion.

Getting into otherkin would be interesting, because that would butt up against A+'s alleged skepticism. When are they going to address this, or the furries? Think of the non-furry privilege! But what do you call somebody who self-identifies with their species? Cisspecies?

Same thing with someone who was an alleged UFO abductee. Clearly, those of us who have not been abducted have privilege! And who are they to say that you haven't been abducted? As we all know, dismissing the experiences of the oppressed is the worst abuse of your privilege.

 

[Diogenes]

Getting into otherkin would be interesting, because that would butt up against A+'s alleged skepticism. When are they going to address this, or the furries? Think of the non-furry privilege! But what do you call somebody who self-identifies with their species? Cisspecies?

Same thing with someone who was an alleged UFO abductee. Clearly, those of us who have not been abducted have privilege! And who are they to say that you haven't been abducted? As we all know, dismissing the experiences of the oppressed is the worst abuse of your privilege.

You're right. And if you self-identify as an atheist you're probably not aware of the privilege of not being oppressed by imaginary deities. They have atheist privilege all up in there. And those poor abductees are just totally left out of the + action.

 

[chillzero]

I'm curious to find out what this is. Google has nothing. Have our natural spoon resources been tapped unsustainably? Are we past Peak Spoon?

The only thing in this area of description I am aware of is from a group of long term pain sufferers. They use the term 'running low on spoons' to explain to people when they are having a bad day, despite the fact they may look perfectly well.

http://butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

I asked her to count her spoons. She asked why, and I explained that when you are healthy you expect to have a never-ending supply of "spoons". But when you have to now plan your day, you need to know exactly how many “spoons” you are starting with. It doesn’t guarantee that you might not lose some along the way, but at least it helps to know where you are starting. She counted out 12 spoons. She laughed and said she wanted more. I said no, and I knew right away that this little game would work, when she looked disappointed, and we hadn't even started yet. I’ve wanted more "spoons" for years and haven’t found a way yet to get more, why should she? I also told her to always be conscious of how many she had, and not to drop them because she can never forget she has Lupus.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Yeah, its used by chronic fatigue syndrome sufferers too.

 

[Stout]

We are at my stepdaughter and her husbands' place on Vancouver Island waiting for our feast to begin in a couple of hours. Spent some time at the Pumpkin Patch with our grandson picking out pumpkins, petting the goats, chickens and geese, and generally enjoying the fantastic fall weather (20C).

Is this great or what ? I'm in Victoria and loving this. Great feast last night and this morning I'm feeling like I'm living up to one of the meanings of my user name

 

[Stout]

I had no idea, either, starting reading things through PZ's facebook posts as I'd been kinda following him on atheism and biology-related posts. I read some of the "elevatorgate" stuff and at first accepted the bias I was fed having never participated in that community. Then I started to learn what things like "MRA" stand for and saw lots of vitriolic posts against "them". Eventually I noticed that the firebrand-waving started to smell like hyperbole and all the usual fallacies we're all familiar with on the Internet.

I looked up "social justice" and read about this "privilege" concept...then found where the "catfairy" "otherkin" types apparently hang out...and the concept of "spoon depletion". Hm. In my apparently simple opinion it just looks like a bunch of people living in a shared, enabling, self-feeding delusion. Though I do genetics on fungus rather than any kind of fancy philosophy or social sciences, so, I'm sticking to that.

Even associating normal politics with atheism I can't see going anywhere in the current political atmosphere in the US, sadly. The fight against religion creeping into more public institutions looks a lot harder than it should be.

The whole elevatorgate grew tiresome after a while. Sure I get what she was on about however I don't think it was such a big deal in the grand scheme of things. It took me back to feminism's heyday of the mid 1990s when I'd be walking down the street at night, see a figure coming the other way and notice Oh Crap it's a woman, she probably thinks I'm some sort of rapist or something, and cross the street to give her some space.

Then I realised that was retarded. What am I going to do spend my life avoiding normal social interactions, like passing them on the street or sharing an elevator, with women ?

It was through a post or another forum wrt MRAs that I came to find A+ and the hyperbole expressed on that thread was fascinating. Been reading there ever since. Only their main forum though and it's following the same format as that other social justice forum follows, belittle for not getting it, banning, prohibiting further participation in certain threads. In short a very very controlled society.

 

[Stout]

I think this was the T-shirt that set it off, worn by Dr. Harriet Hall, who's prominence in the pre-plus movement must have proved extra hurtful for the plus party:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/6736506640f539570.jpg[/qimg]

Cheers, thanks

Yes I can see how that would set off the plussers. I suppose the plusser approach would be to say Dr. hall had been co-opted by the patriarchy and doesn't "know" what she's doing.