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Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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jdc324 said:
What on earth would make "any sane person" think that parents were best placed to judge causation? At best, such testimonies are anecdotal evidence that might prompt research to be undertaken. As we all know, there has been plenty of research into this question and because you don't like the results you ignore it.

At best, your recommendation would leave children unnecessarily unprotected against infectious diseases for months. In fact, it's probably worse than that.

As far as I know there is no safe and effective single mumps vaccine available in the UK at present (I know that Babyjabs, who provide single vaccines, currently have no mumps vaccine available - and this has been the case for years). So it would not even be possible for parents in the UK to follow your recommended vaccine schedule. A schedule that is based on unfounded fears and your unwillingness to accept the current best evidence regarding MMR vaccination.
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Not available?

:idea:

Sounds like a good way to sell the MMR vaccine.
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/feb/02/lancet-retracts-mmr-paper



News
Society
Andrew Wakefield

Lancet retracts 'utterly false' MMR paper

After medical council ruling last week that MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield was dishonest, journal finally quashes paper



MMR doctor andrew wakefield misconduct case
Andrew Wakefield 'deceived the journal' says Lancet's editor.

The Lancet today finally retracted the paper that sparked a crisis in MMR vaccination across the UK, following the General Medical Council's decision that its lead author, Andrew Wakefield, had been dishonest.

The medical journal's editor, Richard Horton, told the Guardian today that he realised as soon as he read the GMC findings that the paper, published in February 1998, had to be retracted. "It was utterly clear, without any ambiguity at all, that the statements in the paper were utterly false," he said. "I feel I was deceived."

http://briandeer.com/mmr-lancet.htm

''Research scandal revealed: When in February 1998 a former gut surgeon, Andrew Wakefield, and 12 associates at London's Royal Free medical school, published in the Lancet medical journal claims linking MMR with autism, it triggered a slump in immunization levels, outbreaks of infectious disease and public worry around the world. But Wakefield's key finding - a claimed time-link of just days between vaccination and autism - was a sham: laundering anonymized allegations for a planned lawsuit, which he had secretly been paid huge sums to back. The Sunday Times, February 2004''

Do some research, Clayton and avoid the loony anti-vaccination sites.
 
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Estellea said:
Sorry Clayton, I relied instead on the testimonies of millions of parents of children who experienced nothing or developmental leaps. I do believe that trumps your anecdote. Add to that, I got an MMR and then went to university. I then got a pre-prophylaxis rabies series and got into grad school. Vaccines for higher education.

Este
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Good job. Now go get the anthrax vaccine series that they are trying to test on babies.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Better question. Who's buying MMR vaccine in the UK and who are they buying MMR vaccine from?
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the NHS is buying the vaccine, which is now non-proprietary and is manufactured by several different companies around the world. As the NHS is a state agency it can buy in bulk and get good prices, which is important since most of the costs ultimately come from the taxpayer.

Interesting advice web page from BUPA, a private British healthcare provider:

Where the MMR vaccine is available, no country recommends single rather than combined vaccines.

There are a number of reasons why the vaccines in the combined MMR aren’t routinely given separately in the UK.

  • Children would need to have six injections in total, which is more unpleasant because of the pain from each jab and six episodes of possible side-effects.
  • It could mean that fewer children have all the necessary vaccinations, increasing the level of measles, mumps and rubella in the UK.
  • There may be more delay before being completely vaccinated, leaving children at risk of infection from the diseases for longer.
  • Single vaccines aren’t licensed in the UK and haven't passed UK safety and effectiveness testing.
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Clayton, your conspiracy just went global. If no country recommends single doses of vaccine, that means that the entire medical profession no matter whether in the private or public sector thinks it's a good idea to carry out multiple vaccinations.

I have to say, it ought to be common sense that 6 times the injections means 6 times the chances of side-effects and 6 times the pain and irritation.
 
This is Clayton's nemesis, Maurice Hilleman, who invented the MMR vaccine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Hilleman

"If I had to name a person who has done more for the benefit of human health, with less recognition than anyone else, it would be Maurice Hilleman. Maurice should be recognized as the most successful vaccinologist in history."
- Robert Gallo, co-discoverer of the virus that causes AIDS
 
Nick Terry said:
This is Clayton's nemesis, Maurice Hilleman, who invented the MMR vaccine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Hilleman

"If I had to name a person who has done more for the benefit of human health, with less recognition than anyone else, it would be Maurice Hilleman. Maurice should be recognized as the most successful vaccinologist in history."
- Robert Gallo, co-discoverer of the virus that causes AIDS
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Hilleman was a forceful man who was at the same time modest in his claims. None of his vaccines or discoveries are named after him. He ran his laboratory like a military unit, and he was the one in command. He terminated every subordinate that did not measure up to his standards. For a time he kept a row of "shrunken heads" (actually fakes made by one of his children) in his office as trophies that represented each of his fired employees. He used profanity and tirades freely to drive his arguments home, and once, famously, refused to attend a mandatory "charm school" course intended to make Merck middle managers more civil.
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Sounds like an idiot.
 
Robert Prey said:
Ooops. Forgot about the greatest stupifier of all. And a prime Autism suspect.. That would of course be Sesame Street.
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Robert Prey, Troll On!



Mudcat said:
Any sane parent would investigate those claims and come to the conclusion that panicked parents are hardly a reliable source of information.

Edited to add: Wasn't this addressed earlier in the thread?
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Panicked parents, yes. Actual vacc timing, no. In fact, Clay has specifically avoided multiple questions about the frequency of vaccinations. Not even his patented non-answer question dodge, he hasn't acknowledged them at all.

Clayton Moore said:
Better question. Who's buying MMR vaccine in the UK and who are they buying MMR vaccine from?
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Dodge.

Clayton Moore said:
Sounds like an idiot.
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Persuasive.

Clay, a lot of famous people who accomplished a lot were actually dicks, personally.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Better question. Who's buying MMR vaccine in the UK and who are they buying MMR vaccine from?
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Even better question: Who wanted to sell HIS vaccine to the UK and faked a scare story about the established MMR vaccine?


Now, any ACTUAL evidence to support your Anthrax vaccine baby claims yet? No?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Not available?

:idea:

Sounds like a good way to sell the MMR vaccine.
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If single vaccines were being withdrawn in order to push the MMR vaccine then why is it that the single measles and singles rubella vaccines are available?

Now we've dealt with your childish conspiracy theorising about the unavailability of the single mumps vaccine, perhaps you'd like to address the point I was making in the post you replied to?

Your alternative vaccine schedule would leave children unprotected against mumps. Does that not concern you?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Sounds like an idiot.
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Clayton's views on the world's millions of biological scientists, medical doctors, public health organizations, and non-government charities: They're all idiots, all! Idiots or insane!! Any who aren't are craven, corrupt baby killlers!!

Clayton, do you ever have a moment of insecurity, especially given your self admitted lack of knowledge of biology, medicine, and the immune system, when you wonder if maybe you are wrong? Do you ever wonder if maybe the millions of experts throughtout the world have it right, and that an evil conspiracy of the magnitude you propose is implausible?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Good job. Now go get the anthrax vaccine series that they are trying to test on babies.
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What's the matter Clayton, upset because you can't get your vaccines cause autism claim to fit? Why keep shifting the goalposts when you are shown to lack credibility?

Este
 
Giordano said:
Clayton's views on the world's millions of biological scientists, medical doctors, public health organizations, and non-government charities: They're all idiots, all! Idiots or insane!! Any who aren't are craven, corrupt baby killlers!!
Click to expand...

Far better to pay attention to loony CT sites and trutherism.
 
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