Should Corporate Profits be Banned?

YOU last statement is blatantly dishonest as I have never made such sweeping statements but only cautioned that in effect, while figures don't lie, liars have been known to figure.

You stated in post #123:

Yet, surveys of oncologists by the Los Angeles Times and the McGill Cancer Center in Montreal show that from 75% to 91% of oncologists would refuse chemotherapy as a treatment for themselves or their families. Why? Too toxic and not effective. Yet, 75% of cancer patients are urged to take chemo by their oncologists."

You did not qualify it for specific cancers, saying the survey was of oncologists was for for chemotherapy, without stating any qualifications. That sounds pretty sweeping to me - and pretty dishonest.
 
"In 2002, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that in the previous year, the average oncologist had made $253,000 of which 75% was profit on chemotherapy drugs administered in his/her office. Yet, surveys of oncologists by the Los Angeles Times and the McGill Cancer Center in Montreal show that from 75% to 91% of oncologists would refuse chemotherapy as a treatment for themselves or their families. Why? Too toxic and not effective. Yet, 75% of cancer patients are urged to take chemo by their oncologists."

http://www.dailypaul.com/57536/75-of-oncologists-wouldnt-take-chemo

Hmmm.
Chasing this back to the source, I come to a dead end at this.
http://www.holisticcancersolutions.com/

A company offering bogus unproven cures. There was no reference to any article by the the American Medical Assocciation. So, Robert, you are simply repeating an unsourced claim by a woo-woo company that makes money off of desperate people, much like Kevin Trudeau.

So you support internet fraud. Congratulations.
 
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Profits fine - taxes on the profits also fine. No problem - as long as the profits are not hidden and are not played with artificially or otherwise.
 
Profits fine - taxes on the profits also fine. No problem - as long as the profits are not hidden and are not played with artificially or otherwise.

This brings us a back a bit closer to the OP. Yeah, a lot of people at the Democratic Convention interviewed by Schiff sounded really dumb, saying that for-profit corporations shouldn't make a profit. Again, this reminds me of asinine statements made by student protestors against the war in Viet Nam. There were still excellent reasons not to be in that war, which was of dubious legality and based on gross deception.

So, yes, Schiff made a pretty good "gotcha" video, and, no, this is not the policy of the Democratic Party or of President Obama.
 
Chasing this back to the source, I come to a dead end at this.
http://www.holisticcancersolutions.com/

A company offering bogus unproven cures. There was no reference to any article by the the American Medical Assocciation. So, Robert, you are simply repeating an unsourced claim by a woo-woo company that makes money off of desperate people, much like Kevin Trudeau.

So you support internet fraud. Congratulations.

I think you're searching in all the wrong places:

From: Cancer Network, HOme of the Journal of Oncology

http://www.cancernetwork.com/display/article/10165/66128?verify=0


"In 1985, a survey found that only about one-third of physicians and oncology nurses would have consented to chemotherapy for non-small-cell lung cancer...

In the MacKillop et al study,[13] only 17% of medical oncologists said that they would take chemotherapy for painful bone metastases and another 17% said that they would undergo radiotherapy to the spine, in addition to chemotherapy, for a total of 34%. "

The source for this listed as:

13. Mackillop WJ, O’Sullivan B, Ward GK: Non-small-cell lung cancer: How oncologists want to be treated. Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys 13:929-934, 1987.
 
I think you're searching in all the wrong places:

From: Cancer Network, HOme of the Journal of Oncology

http://www.cancernetwork.com/display/article/10165/66128?verify=0


"In 1985, a survey found that only about one-third of physicians and oncology nurses would have consented to chemotherapy for non-small-cell lung cancer...

In the MacKillop et al study,[13] only 17% of medical oncologists said that they would take chemotherapy for painful bone metastases and another 17% said that they would undergo radiotherapy to the spine, in addition to chemotherapy, for a total of 34%. "

The source for this listed as:

13. Mackillop WJ, O’Sullivan B, Ward GK: Non-small-cell lung cancer: How oncologists want to be treated. Int J Radiat Oncol Biol Phys 13:929-934, 1987.

Yes, I already quoted this material in post # 138. Here it is again:

In 1985, a survey found that only about one-third of physicians and oncology nurses would have consented to chemotherapy for non-small-cell lung cancer. In response to statements made at a recent American Society of Oncology (ASCO) Board of Directors meeting questioning whether these data are still valid, Dr. Smith and colleagues conducted a new survey of oncologists attending a 1997 National Comprehensive Cancer Network (NCCN) annual meeting. The results of that survey are summarized and analyzed.
Treatment recommendations for non-small-cell lung cancer[1-3] have changed markedly over the past 20 years, based on evidence that chemotherapy improves survival [4-8] and can palliate symptoms.[9] The use of combined-modality chemotherapy and radiation therapy, with or without surgery, has also substantially improved the 1-, 2-, and 5-year survival of patients with locally advanced disease,[4,5] although at the expense of modestly increased toxicity.

In 1985, MacKillop and colleagues found that of 118 Canadian doctors who treat lung cancer, only 16% would want chemotherapy for symptomatic metastatic bone disease.[13] Lind and colleagues surveyed teaching oncologists in Boston in 1987 and found that 27% would probably or definitely take chemotherapy for stage III non-small-cell lung cancer, but 76% would take radiation therapy.
And again note the hilited areas. Here are the important points that are glossed over in the new age type alternate medicine source in your links:

1) The survey was done in 1985 - over 25 years ago. So, since the technology of chemotherapy has changed dramatically since then, the survey is irrelevant today.

2) Even this source stated that in the 20 years that had passed since the survey was taken, great improvements had been made with respect to survival rates and palliative effects.

3) The survey did not deal with chemotherapy across the board - as was strongly implied in your other links, but had to do specifically with small-cell lung cancer and symptomatic metastatic bone disease.

4) Even back then 76% of the oncologists said they would take radiation therapy.

So, your evil "Cancer Establishment" bogey is actually effective in dealing with some cancers, less effective with others and has greatly improved the survival rate of cancer victims over the decades that have passed since this out of date survey was taken.
 
Hey Robert, getting back to corporate profits, since between 66.6% and 75% of American workers have no access to profit sharing, would you be in favor of legally mandating profit sharing for all American workers? This would mean all of them would have a vested interest in corporate profits.
 
Hey Robert, getting back to corporate profits, since between 66.6% and 75% of American workers have no access to profit sharing, would you be in favor of legally mandating profit sharing for all American workers? This would mean all of them would have a vested interest in corporate profits.


You still have the problem of allocating that profit "sharing" between the most productive workers and the least productive workers.

Oh, and do the supervisors, executives, and managers get a cut of that profit-pie?

Gee, is that just going to mirror their base pay? Gee, maybe it's already incorporated into that ...

:rolleyes:

Oh, wait, you still have to compensate the owners first and then allocate some of that left-over "profit" to non-deductible expenses like loan-principal payments and other off-book expenses ...

Oh, wait again, maybe "profit" is just a silly tax-law concept in the first place ...

:rolleyes:
 
Hey Robert, getting back to corporate profits, since between 66.6% and 75% of American workers have no access to profit sharing, would you be in favor of legally mandating profit sharing for all American workers? This would mean all of them would have a vested interest in corporate profits.

Mandating is what dictators do.
 
Oh, wait, you still have to compensate the owners first and then allocate some of that left-over "profit" to non-deductible expenses like loan-principal payments and other off-book expenses ...

Wouldn't that be included before calculating the profit? And what would off-book expenses be? Everything should be on the books, unless you're running some kind of illegal operation.
 
Mandating is what dictators do.

Ah more disinformation?

a command or authorization to act in a particular way on a public issue given by the electorate to its representative

an authoritative command; especially : a formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one

an authorization to act given to a representative

An authoritative command or instruction.

A command or an authorization given by a political electorate to its representative.

An official or authoritative command; an order or injunction; a commission; a judicial precept.


Note that authority allows only for legal orders given within the framework of law.

You mean diktat. Apparently english is not your first language.
 
You still have the problem of allocating that profit "sharing" between the most productive workers and the least productive workers.

I wold assume that the more productive a worker is, the more likely he or she is to get a pay raise or a promotion. The more unproductive a worker is, the more likely he or she is to be the first laid off. Yes, those at a higher pay scale would also get greater shares of profit. At least that's the way I see it. Profit sharing is being done in from 25% to 33.3% of American companies. You could look into how it's actually being done.

Oh, and do the supervisors, executives, and managers get a cut of that profit-pie?

Yes. I would assume profit sharing is for everyone to motivate people at all levels. Again, you can look into how it's handled in companies that have actually institute such programs.

Gee, is that just going to mirror their base pay? Gee, maybe it's already incorporated into that ...

:rolleyes:

Oh, wait, you still have to compensate the owners first and then allocate some of that left-over "profit" to non-deductible expenses like loan-principal payments and other off-book expenses ...

Oh, wait again, maybe "profit" is just a silly tax-law concept in the first place ...

:rolleyes:

Again, look into how it's actually being done in those companies with profit sharing programs. That will be considerably more productive than making a lot of snide remarks.
 
Oh, and do the supervisors, executives, and managers get a cut of that profit-pie?

They, most often, already do get a share of that profit in the form of bonuses. Something that most of the other employees do not get.
 
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken
They, most often, already do get a share of that profit in the form of bonuses. Something that most of the other employees do not get.

Good for them!

So, tell me: Do you have anything against universal profit sharing?
 
Good for them!

The problem is that most of the workers do not. This is a philosophy of greed, which I think is wrong. Everyone in the company should share in the victories and defeats in a company. Unfortunately, for most, workers only share in the defeat and rarely get a share of the victories.
 
The problem is that most of the workers do not. This is a philosophy of greed, which I think is wrong. Everyone in the company should share in the victories and defeats in a company. Unfortunately, for most, workers only share in the defeat and rarely get a share of the victories.

And, unfortunately, as I've pointed out, when profitable companies are acquired in friendly takeovers, their workers are redundant and are laid off. Thus, they are actually punished for the company's good fortune.
 
You still have the problem of allocating that profit "sharing" between the most productive workers and the least productive workers.

But giving the biggest cut to the most productive and worthwhile employees would feel like rape to a lot of the suits.
 

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