Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

[pakeha]

20120917.0505

@pakeha, #525

The first nail was thrown into the sea, I believe during the first century AD, when Pontius Pilate died. It floated and was picked up by Saint James in Paris. It was named “Clavo Santo”. This was what the spirit of Ama related. I believe it was from Israel where it was thrown into the Mediterranean Sea because there are Pharisees mentioned and that it was Pontius Pilate who condemned Jesus on the cross.

From “Pasiong Mahal”, it says on page 203 that the nail in Karpentas, I believe, Carpentras, France, is named Clavo Santo. ...

On page 204, the fourth nail was thrown into the Adriatic Sea by the mother of the Roman Emperor Constantine, Saint Helena, which floated until it reached Paris. This is in the Temple or Basilica of Saint Denis. I believe this happened during the fourth century AD during the reign of Constantine I the Great.

So there are two nails which were thrown into the seas which floated and ended up in Paris, France.

Thanks for citing those verses of the Pasiong again.
I've understood correctly you think there are two nails which ended up in Paris.
One in Carpentas.
One in Milan.
One in Rome.

We've discussed a couple of unusual points about this, PC.
One being that Pontius Pilate is recorded as having been recalled from Palestine to Rome and then exiled. Apparently he died in Vienne, far from Jerusalem.
In any case, why would the Pharisees have thrown a nail from the cruxcifixion into the sea to calm a storm?

About those two nails in Carpentras and Milan- one has to be a fake, of course, because they both make the claim to be fashioned into the Emperor's bridle.
Do you understand that, PC?

Is anybody going to point out that nails don't float?????

I suppose you don't think cases of Dom don't float, either?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

Thanks for citing those verses of the Pasiong again.
I've understood correctly you think there are two nails which ended up in Paris.
One in Carpentas.
One in Milan.
One in Rome.

We've discussed a couple of unusual points about this, PC.
One being that Pontius Pilate is recorded as having been recalled from Palestine to Rome and then exiled. Apparently he died in Vienne, far from Jerusalem.
In any case, why would the Pharisees have thrown a nail from the cruxcifixion into the sea to calm a storm?

About those two nails in Carpentras and Milan- one has to be a fake, of course, because they both make the claim to be fashioned into the Emperor's bridle.
Do you understand that, PC?


I suppose you don't think cases of Dom don't float, either?

20120917.1835

@pakeha, #541

You are correct, pakeha. Two nails ended up in Paris – one during the first century AD when Pontius Pilate died and one during the fourth century AD during the reign of Emperor Constantine. The first was taken to Carpentras from Paris. When it was sent to Carpentras? I do not know. By whom? I do not know.

Do you know why the earth quaked, it rained and flooded when Pontius Pilate was buried?

I know that nails are made of metal, and logically, will not float. But is there anything impossible with God. I told you what Ama related and how it ties up with what is in “Pasiong Mahal”.

If one of the nails was mixed with Emperor Constantine’s crown, could that be the Iron Crown of Lombardy in Monza? Monza is just 15 km north-north-east of Milan. The crown is supposed to contain one of the nails used at the Crucifixion in the frescoed Chapel of Theodelinda.

The Iron Crown has a “narrow band of iron about one centimeter within it, said to be beaten out of one of the nails used at the crucifixion”. Despite centuries of exposure, “there is not a speck rust on the essential inner iron ring”. “This iron ring also shows no magnetic attraction.” (Wikipedia, Iron Crown of Lombardy)

Also from Wikipedia is the following legend, “Helena supposedly cast one nail into the sea to calm a storm, while another was incorporated into Constantine’s helmet, another fitted to the head of a statue of the Emperor, and a fourth melted down and molded into a bit for Constantine’s horse.” The first I believe is true. The second to fourth, I do not know.

 

[Mojo]

About those two nails in Carpentras and Milan- one has to be a fake, of course...

At least one.

 

[Mojo]

Do you know why the earth quaked, it rained and flooded when Pontius Pilate was buried?

Begging the question. We don't even know if the earth quaked, it rained and flooded when Pontius Pilate was buried, and neither do you.

 

[Mojo]

“This iron ring also shows no magnetic attraction.” (Wikipedia, Iron Crown of Lombardy)

Not iron, then.

ETA: What Wikipedia actually says is "Lipinsky in his examination of the Iron Crown in 1985 noted that this iron ring also shows no magnetic attraction.[8]" The link given in the Wikipedia article is broken, and archived versions of the page it goes to don't mention Lipinsky, but this appears to be the artice in question (it has the same title and is on the website mentioned in the Wikipedia citation): Le gemme della Corona Ferrea. According to Google translate, it says, "The inner circle metallic gray, believed to be iron, waits appropriate analysis after LIPINSKY (1985) has noticed that it does not attract a magnet". So there doesn't appear to be any evidence that it is in fact iron.

 

[svenax]

Do you know why the earth quaked, it rained and flooded when Pontius Pilate was buried?

Aristeo, you keep saying "Do you know" all kinds of outrageous stuff. I certainly do not know that, and I'm pretty sure noone else here except you know anything of the kind.

The Iron Crown has a “narrow band of iron about one centimeter within it, said to be beaten out of one of the nails used at the crucifixion”. Despite centuries of exposure, “there is not a speck rust on the essential inner iron ring”. “This iron ring also shows no magnetic attraction.” (Wikipedia, Iron Crown of Lombardy)

As has been noted several times already, there's doubt that the ring is even made of iron, from a holy nail or otherwise. I want to refer back to my post upthread about the Iron Crown. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8585375&postcount=206 Of course, that is just conjecture, but more believable (to me at least) than the original story.

 

[svenax]

Aristeo, could you please actually address some of the arguments made against your ideas, instead of just repeating the same assertions all over again? Thank you.

 

[Multivac]

Well, they may not actually have floated. They could have been carried by an African swallow.

Oooooh, no, Geezer. For carrying nails, especially crucifiction nails, you need the more powerful European swallow.

 

[TjW]

20120917.1835

I know that nails are made of metal, and logically, will not float. But is there anything impossible with God.

Can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?

 

[Blue Mountain]

Aristeo, could you please actually address some of the arguments made against your ideas, instead of just repeating the same assertions all over again? Thank you.

Such as:

PeaceCrusader, did the nails swim against the current from Le Havre to Paris?

Even if one accepts the idea of nails floating (which is highly unlikely), a floating object moves with the current, not against it. So how did the mails get upstream from Le Havre to Paris?

 

[Astreja]

I know that nails are made of metal, and logically, will not float. But is there anything impossible with God.

Existential fallacy: You have to provide empirical evidence that this alleged god actually exists before you start making assertions about what it can or cannot do.

I'm going to apply Occam's Razor here, Aristeo. You are telling us highly illogical and convoluted stories that defy logic and science at just about every turn. I think that there is little to no factual information in any of them, and that these are no more than fairytales that were told to impress believers.

 

[tsig]

Not only do nails not float, but wouldn't the salt in sea water cause iron nails to corrode?

I think we should obtain one of these nails and subject it to appropriate metallurgic testing. Hypothetically a magic nail should float in seawater, and if left in seawater sufficiently long to make the trip from hither to yon should also show no signs of chemical breakdown.

The interaction between the nail and the salt water produced an electric field around the nail which made it into a compass and allowed it to float.

There's the E in JREF.

 

[tsig]

Can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?

The Romans made a nail so strong he couldn't pull it.

 

[tsig]

Not iron, then.

ETA: What Wikipedia actually says is "Lipinsky in his examination of the Iron Crown in 1985 noted that this iron ring also shows no magnetic attraction.[8]" The link given in the Wikipedia article is broken, and archived versions of the page it goes to don't mention Lipinsky, but this appears to be the artice in question (it has the same title and is on the website mentioned in the Wikipedia citation): Le gemme della Corona Ferrea. According to Google translate, it says, "The inner circle metallic gray, believed to be iron, waits appropriate analysis after LIPINSKY (1985) has noticed that it does not attract a magnet". So there doesn't appear to be any evidence that it is in fact iron.

It had to be iron because we know god has no power over iron.

 

[jsfisher]

The interaction between the nail and the salt water produced an electric field around the nail which made it into a compass and allowed it to float.

There's the E in JREF.

Water was much heavier back during the biblical era. Light water (Aqua Lite as it is called in some parts of Europe) is a relatively recent phenomenon and correlates with evolving beverage tastes in western cultures.

Also, there are reports, yet unconfirmed, that wood may have been the primary material used in making iron nails. Remember, the only elements to be found back then were earth, wind, fire, and water. The iron we know today didn't actually exist at the time when John the Baptist carried his head on a platter (no doubt made of wood, too).

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Oooooh, no, Geezer. For carrying nails, especially crucifiction nails, you need the more powerful European swallow.

More important, It should be unladen, For maximum air speed velocity.

 

[abaddon]

It had to be iron because we know god has no power over iron.

Doc ain't here man!

 

[abaddon]

More important, It should be unladen, For maximum air speed velocity.

That's no joke. You must always know the gross unladen weight before you ship.

 

[Astreja]

The interaction between the nail and the salt water produced an electric field around the nail which made it into a compass and allowed it to float.

But if it turned into a compass, shouldn't it have ended up here?

 

[wollery]

So how did the mails get upstream from Le Havre to Paris?

French postal service?