Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

[PeaceCrusader]

Yes, I do. I think that spirits are imaginary, and if you want Me to believe otherwise you will have to invent some way for science to consistently detect them.


Until otherwise demonstrated, I think that it's a trick of the human brain. These "ghosts" do not seem to be related to the physical universe in any way whatsoever except as constructs of the physical brain.


My guess is that it's an anomaly in the ecosystem. It could have been a sudden temperature drop that caused the birds' hearts to stop; an unidentified toxin; a perturbance in the electromagnetic field of the Earth that caused the birds' evolved navigational systems to go awry; or some other natural phenomenon that we have yet to identify.

I absolutely do not think that the death of the birds has anything whatsoever to do with gods or spirits. Furthermore, for the safety and well-being of other flocks of birds and other living entities on this planet, I think that we need to research this properly. Writing it off as a god or demon having an orniphobic hissy-fit is a total waste of time, as it explains nothing.

And please answer My question: Knowing now that we don't believe you, why are you here?

20120912.1050

@Astreja, #489

How about poltergeist, Astreja? There are physical evidences. You may video tape the happenings. You can record on tape the sounds.

The World Book Dictionary defines a poltergeist as “a spirit or phost that is supplosed to make its presence known by tappings, the slamming of doors, or other sounds or happenings that cannot be explained”.

 

[abaddon]

Abaddon, you kindly provided this summary of the Dramatis Personae in this little farce:


Indeed, does 'Ka Apaz' even exist?

You know what? That's a great question. I am facepalming that I didn't think of it.

And if she does, has she been subject to any legal investigations or lawsuits in the Philippines?

And if not... Why not?

What the hey, does she have a COLB?

 

[abaddon]

20120912.1000

@svenax, #487

Yes, that came to my mind last night – a living person by the name of Angelina Imden using the body of Ka Apaz and talks in Filipino. I thought that only dead persons do that. I believe that Ama lived before, so were the cherub Saint Evangeline, the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Cecilia, the apostles Michael and Gabriel. But Angelina Imden is a living person, supposedly in England. How could her spirit leave her body and appropriate Ka Apaz’s body and talk in Filipino? I know that nothing is impossible with God. But how could Angelina Imden do this? How could the people in England be able to know what is being spoken in Egyptian by the body dug up in Egypt? Please help me scrutinize this happening. As I have said, I still doubt Angelina Imden.

Swing and a miss. You almost got there PC, almost.

 

[abaddon]

20120912.1030

@Mojo, #495

Yes, Mojo, they all speak in Filipino, plus, of course, the spirit of Ama. The difference is Angelina Imden who from her account is supposedly living in England. A living person. And this makes me wonder how. That is what I just posted in this forum in reply to the question of svenax. I am in a quandary.

Yet this set no alarm bells ringing. You are not yet in the inevitable quandary, as you have not yet found the subterfuge of your Ka Apaz. For your sake, I hope that realisation will be sooner not later.

 

[Astreja]

How about poltergeist, Astreja? There are physical evidences. You may video tape the happenings. You can record on tape the sounds.

I've never experienced a poltergeist. If anything physical is happening, it is physical rather than supernatural and should be analyzable through scientific means.

The World Book Dictionary defines a poltergeist as “a spirit or phost that is supplosed to make its presence known by tappings, the slamming of doors, or other sounds or happenings that cannot be explained”.

The World Book Dictionary also contains the words "imaginary" and "mythological."

How much plainer must I make this, Aristeo? I do not believe in the supernatural. I do not believe in your god. I do not believe in good or evil spirits. I do not believe that Ka Apaz has any connection with gods.

And above all else, I do not believe you. I find the stories that you're posting here to be utterly ridiculous, and I find it unspeakably tragic that you're attempting to defend disproven nonsense by digging up even more absurd stories.

What do you want from us, Aristeo? Do you really want to learn the truth about what you believe, or do you just want us to agree with you? We can help you with the former, if you're willing, but if you just continue to post ridiculous stories I can virtually guarantee that you'll never see that agreement.

 

[hurdygurdy]

Yes, Mojo, they all speak in Filipino, plus, of course, the spirit of Ama. The difference is Angelina Imden who from her account is supposedly living in England. A living person. And this makes me wonder how. That is what I just posted in this forum in reply to the question of svenax. I am in a quandary.

We've told you the reason about two hundred times, but you don't like the answer. Here it is anyway, I'll type slowly in the hopes that maybe it will hopefully sink in:

Ka.Apaz.Is.A.Fake.

 

[Pixel42]

How about poltergeist, Astreja? There are physical evidences. You may video tape the happenings. You can record on tape the sounds.

There have been many reports of poltergeists and many videos and tapes of their supposed effects. Bored or disturbed teenagers seem to be the actual explanation for most of them.

http://www.skepdic.com/poltergeist.html

Christopher relates several poltergeist investigations that turned out to be the work of bored or agitated adolescents and adults. One group of four youngsters was asked why they had terrorized a teacher and the children attending their rural schoolhouse in North Dakota. "They admitted that when they had found their teacher and their parents so gullible, so easy to mystify, they thoroughly enjoyed the excitement and the publicity their pranks had provoked" (Christopher 1970: 149).

 

[pakeha]

... I believe that Ama lived before, so were the cherub Saint Evangeline, the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Cecilia, the apostles Michael and Gabriel. But Angelina Imden is a living person, supposedly in England. ... How could the people in England be able to know what is being spoken in Egyptian by the body dug up in Egypt? Please help me scrutinize this happening. As I have said, I still doubt Angelina Imden.

As you should, PC.
You should also doubt St Evangeline, who is an invented character.
You should also doubt the spirits passing themselves as apostles Michael and Gabriel, since there are no such things. Michael and Gabriel are supposed to be archangels, not apostles.

You still seem to be entrenched in the idea these seances are giving you something of value, even though here we have repeatedly shown you the stories fed you in these seances is incorrect.
We've done this with (in my case) very basic computer skills and five minutes of time.
And Google, of course.

...The difference is Angelina Imden who from her account is supposedly living in England. A living person. And this makes me wonder how. That is what I just posted in this forum in reply to the question of svenax. I am in a quandary.

How?
It's very simple.
The seances are simply that- seances.
You and your group are being taken in by a person spinning stories to suit her audience.

It's very simply to see just how clumsy the lies are, PC.
Try Googling st Evangeline.

...The World Book Dictionary defines a poltergeist as “a spirit or phost that is supplosed to make its presence known by tappings, the slamming of doors, or other sounds or happenings that cannot be explained”.

The key phrase is "supposed to".
I feel the need for spiritual comfort, so a round of Dom for all!

 

[Rincewind]

20120912.1000

I thought that only dead persons do that.

I believe that Ama lived before, so were the cherub Saint Evangeline, the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Cecilia, the apostles Michael and Gabriel.

PC... Is the anything you don't believe?

Maybe you'd like to buy a bridge?

Seriously though, maybe if you were to actually take the advice of people here and evaluate all of this sceptically, you'd see just how you're being conned.

I really hope that you've not given money away becuase of this nonsense.

I really don't understand why you've come here. If you're looking for advice, then why don't you take some of the huge amount that's been given? If you're looking for converts, then surely your time here must have shown you that this is a forlorn hope?

All of your beliefs and theories have been shot-down in flames, but you seem able to continue regardless.

Please - wake up and see how wonderful the real world is...

 

[Patchwork Moth]

This is a great place for learning. I've learnt lots of things I didnt know. Thanks folk.

PC, its a shame you're so wrapped up in KA. It's a beautiful world full of interesting things and you seem to miss it all. By scrabbling around for confirmation of statements made by KA, you can't appreciate the education available here and believe rubbish which some christians I've met would be horrified by and demand you get your evil demons released.

I'm not bothering to tell you all that is wrong with your ideas; others have done that already- and far better than I would.

 

[Agatha]

20120912.1000

@svenax, #487

Yes, that came to my mind last night – a living person by the name of Angelina Imden using the body of Ka Apaz and talks in Filipino. I thought that only dead persons do that. I believe that Ama lived before, so were the cherub Saint Evangeline, the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Cecilia, the apostles Michael and Gabriel. But Angelina Imden is a living person, supposedly in England. How could her spirit leave her body and appropriate Ka Apaz’s body and talk in Filipino? I know that nothing is impossible with God. But how could Angelina Imden do this? How could the people in England be able to know what is being spoken in Egyptian by the body dug up in Egypt? Please help me scrutinize this happening. As I have said, I still doubt Angelina Imden.

The explanation is really simple, but I recognise it is very difficult for you to accept. Ka Apaz is a fake. There is no such person as Angelina Imden, everything that Ka Apaz has told you about her is a lie. I live in England, remember, and I can tell you with certainty that Angelina Imden does not exist, there is no religious group being led by her, none of the mountains in England are big enough to prevent post being delivered and there is no place in England which is eight hours away from a city. Similarly, there never was a Saint Evangeline. Michael and Gabriel are archangels in the bible, not apostles.

Have you ever been to see a play at the theatre, or a film at the cinema? Or watched a play or film on the television? If so, you'll have seen some very convincing acting. And convincing acting is just what Ka Apaz is doing; she puts on a show, changes her voice and mannerisms, and pretends that she's channelling a spirit. What she is doing is something which is forbidden in the Bible.

It's really good that you've started to think critically about this, PeaceCrusader. You've urged us to be discerning but until now, you've believed everything Ka Apaz has said with no discernment at all.

I don't want you to stop believing in your God if you are happy in your faith, but I do want you to stop believing in Ka Apaz, because she is a fake and a charlatan. If any of your group has given her money, she has swindled you (plural).

 

[PeaceCrusader]

PC, did you actually see flood waters stop rising within minutes of someone throwing in a nail, or did Ka Apez/Ama just tell you that the flood waters stopped rising?

And when this allegedly happened, how long had the flood been underway?

It's highly probable that the flood had already peaked by the time the members reached Pangasinan, and that nothing in the least bit supernatural happened. It takes time for people to reach flooded areas, and floods do eventually recede on their own.

20120912.2015

@Astreja, #398

I found the tape recording regarding the nails thrown at the flooded river at Pangasinan. It is related by the late Marcial Aguila. Here is the English translation of tape m03b, taped about 1983, from 33:41:

Marcial Aguila: That is why, during that time, about a few years ago, when it flooded, Ama gave nails to all of us. In all placed ..., which river were you sent to?
Cecilio: To Pangasinan.
Marcial: Pangasinan. The river there was flooding. You just throw that nail, the water level will not rise anymore. It would not become higher anymore. Those nails, we throw them where there is flooding.
Cecilo: From then on, it did not flood.

I did not experience throwing nails into a flooded river so I don’t know if the water stopped rising after the nails were thrown. I would assume that it would be like the storms stopped and the seas calmed down when the nails were thrown into the Mediterranean Sea or Adriatic Sea.

 

[Astreja]

I did not experience throwing nails into a flooded river so I don’t know if the water stopped rising after the nails were thrown.

So you just took someone else's word for it?

I would assume that it would be like the storms stopped and the seas calmed down when the nails were thrown into the Mediterranean Sea or Adriatic Sea.

There is no evidence that the storms did actually stop or that the seas calmed, or even that nails were thrown into the sea. Until you can provide a better quality of evidence, I think it's reasonable that all this nonsense about magic nails is just mythological stories that someone made up.

But why would people make up such stories, Aristeo? To deceive people into believing the unbelievable, so that they will become members of a group and support that group with money and unpaid labour.

And from where I sit, it looks like you fell so deeply into that trap that you are currently unable to get out.

This is what I would do, Aristeo, if I were you:

1. Stop posting transcripts of recordings, because we don't believe you or any of the people on the recordings.
2. Re-read all of our responses, paying special attention to the points of disagreement that we have raised.
3. Close down your website.
4. Cease all contact with the Ka Apaz cult immediately, and if necessary change your phone number and e-mail address so that no one in the group can reach you.
5. Enrol in a college course in critical thinking, and perhaps a course on the history of Christianity.
6. And most important of all, ask yourself whether your beliefs have given you a good quality of life. From what you've posted here, you don't sound like someone whom I would want to emulate. While you speak of becoming old (at the rather young age of 64) and worry about "good spirits" and "bad spirits," I'm busy with music, writing, gardening and many other things that enrich My existence. I see no reason that I, or anyone else, should trade away life in abundance for a dive into a maelstrom of superstitious madness.

Just My $0.02 CDN.

 

[Rincewind]

PC - for your own sake listen to someone like Astreja.

She's providing 100% more common sense and logic than your friend....

 

[svenax]

Marcial Aguila: That is why, during that time, about a few years ago, when it flooded, Ama gave nails to all of us. In all placed ..., which river were you sent to?
Cecilio: To Pangasinan.
Marcial: Pangasinan. The river there was flooding. You just throw that nail, the water level will not rise anymore. It would not become higher anymore. Those nails, we throw them where there is flooding.
Cecilo: From then on, it did not flood.

Mhm. Googling "Pangasinan flooding" shows that this occurs pretty frequently. And one way to make it stop is to open the spillway gates in a dam in the area as was done here: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/247921/2009-lessons-helped-pangasinan-deal-with-new-floods

Are you sure it was the nail throwing that made the flood receede, and not something like in the article?

 

[pakeha]

^
Nice catch, svenax.
A round of Dom for all!

 

[George 152]

Hey thanksh...hic...thanksh Pake...Pake...thanksh.

Heyyyy Minesh...minesh got a floaty nail in it

Some-one spiked your drink then

 

[PiedPiper]

Oh for goodness sake.

PeaceCrusader, it's obvious to everyone here (but you) that the great majority of what this woman has told you is false. You cling to your "proof" of Jesus' birthday / date of death (not that anyone else here agrees with your proof) and now you're in this thread, claiming to be befuddled and confused and "in a quandary" re: how the woman is being possessed / channeling the spirit of someone who is alive. Here's a hint: SHE'S FAKING IT.

You give this womans proclamations such high value and put yourself into such a tizzy ("devastated" at the wrong Olympic prediction, etc) when they turn out not to be true.

I've never used such strong words before, because I believe in respecting belief systems and opinions of others, but here goes anyway: join the rest of us in the real world, PeaceCrusader. Forget this woman and all the tape recordings. You can find spiritual peace in other areas. From your posts on this board, it's apparent that this woman is not leading you to spiritual peace. She's leading you astray.

If you can't bring yourself to break free from this woman - and I can understand such a thing; you have so much emotional investment in it - your points don't need to be posted again and again here on this board. Discussion is a two way street. Education takes place via discussion and reconsideration of currently held beliefs. If you're not willing to reconsider your beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence that they're incorrect, you're refusing to be educated in the facts of real life, and I don't know why you're on an educational forum.

 

[rickps]

Some-one spiked your drink then

Badoom, tish. He'll be here all week, folks.

 

[svenax]

Another thing I've been pondering, Aristeo. You refer to "you (plural)" when describing the seances held by Maria Liwayway Alvaran aka Ka Apaz. So, why is it that the only person that shows up when googling her name is you? Don't any of the other people in the seance group have internet access? Inquiring minds wants to know.