Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
JayUtah said:
This has nothing to do with my post. I asked you to show me the "layers" in the PDF file you say are there. Instead you show me an artist's depiction of the Birther's claims.
Click to expand...

Would it not be accurate to say that your "groups" or "objects" reside on layers?????
 
Robert Prey said:
Would it not be accurate to say that your "groups" or "objects" reside on layers?????
Click to expand...

Nope. It wouldn't and you were told why.

Illustrator is NOT photoshop. Until you and your birther friends understand this, then you can take the step forward to understanding why you are wrong.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Still not getting it.

As the PDF contains the same info as the Certified Paper Copies why does it matter how it was composed, edited or created?

Hawaii says the info on the PDF and the the Paper copies is legit.

Why is there this endless round and round discussion on Experts and PDF Structure when it doesn't matter.?
Click to expand...

Because although the information may be consistent what with Hawaii now has in hand (and we don't even know that), we don't know when or how such information was obtained. It may have been obtained weeks, months or years after the alleged birth. And the info may only be traced to a Declaration of Birth and not a Birth Certificate.
 
Robert Prey said:
Because although the information may be consistent what with Hawaii now has in hand (and we don't even know that), we don't know when or how such information was obtained. It may have been obtained weeks, months or years after the alleged birth. And the info may only be traced to a Declaration of Birth and not a Birth Certificate.
Click to expand...

Wrong. That legal theory was rejected, and the lawyer who propounded it failed to cite all the relevant law and procedure, which obviated his claim.

This was dealt with weeks ago.
 
Originally Posted by Robert Prey
Would it not be accurate to say that your "groups" or "objects" reside on layers?????

Arus808 said:
Nope. It wouldn't and you were told why.

Illustrator is NOT photoshop. Until you and your birther friends understand this, then you can take the step forward to understanding why you are wrong.
Click to expand...

I'll revise the question with a little more specificity:

In terms of Layers in a PDF file, would it not be accurate to say that "groups" or "objects'" reside on layers????
 
Robert Prey said:
...would it not be accurate to say that "groups" or "objects'" reside on layers????
Click to expand...

Still highly inaccurate, for the reasons elaborated.

I watched you a few days ago make exactly the same mistake as your pseudo-experts, either because you're as unfamiliar with the tools as they or because they've simply spoon-fed you your belief.

Zebest starts with the presumption that a forged document was created in Photoshop. Not inappropriate, since that's the product she writes books about. Photoshop has a Layers panel. In Photoshop, every entry in the Layers panel is a layer, principally because a Photoshop image is a flat list of layers, and each layer is conceptually the same thing.

Illustrator also has a Layers panel, but it behaves very differently than Photoshop's. When she imported the Obama PDF into Illustrator -- a tool wholly unsuited to analyzing PDFs -- Zebest noted several entries in the Layers panel and wrongly interpreted that to mean that each item was a layer, or somehow in its own layer. In fact Illustrator reported exactly one Layer -- the default layer Illustrator creates to import content into. The other entries in the Layers panel were the contained objects.

PDF objects are not layers. They're not "commonly called" layers. They aren't organized into layers. They aren't treated as layers. They have no properties analogous to layers in the Adobe creative products. Zebest committed a simple novice error and has been trying to tap-dance around it ever since by silly word games.

Every scanned PDF that undergoes optimization produces a PDF containing several objects. Optimization works by replacing elements of the scanned image with simpler objects conveying the same intent with fewer bytes. I've posted instructions for how you can demonstrate this to yourself.
 
Straw Man said:
George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson
Martin Van Buren
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
James Polk
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses S. Grant
Rutherford B. Hayes
James A. Garfield
Chester Alan Arthur
Grover Cleveland
Benjamin Harrison
Grover Cleveland
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt
William Howard Taft
Woodrow Wilson
Warren G. Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Herbert Hoover
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Harry S Truman
Dwight D. Eisenhower
John F. Kennedy
Lyndon Johnson
Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Jimmy Carter
Ronald Reagan
George Bush
Bill Clinton
George W. Bush
Click to expand...


"One President at a time, please."
 
Robert Prey said:
Because although the information may be consistent what with Hawaii now has in hand (and we don't even know that), we don't know when or how such information was obtained. It may have been obtained weeks, months or years after the alleged birth. And the info may only be traced to a Declaration of Birth and not a Birth Certificate.
Click to expand...

So the PDF is consistent with the Printed Copies which are Certified by Hawaii.

therefore the layers or groups withing the PDF when opened in Illustrator don't matter at all and neither do the printed copies.

If you think the original is a fraud then your beef is with Hawaii so why harp on about the PDF?
 
And as Hawaii has certified it as genuine it is, shall we ask Arizona to produce Joe Arapio's birth certifcate to prove he is elgible for office too?
 
Dcdrac said:
And as Hawaii has certified it as genuine it is, shall we ask Arizona to produce Joe Arapio's birth certifcate to prove he is elgible for office too?
Click to expand...

Happily, he wasn't born here (much like the vast majority of all of the other morons who are giving this state a bad name). :D
 
It doesn't matter for just about every political position if you're Johnny Foreigner. If I wanted to, I could eventually run for office as a Senator or Congressman*

It's the little bit that they put in the Constitution about being 'natural born' in relationship to being the main man that's the problem, which was to keep any jobless royalty from coming over and taking charge.


*Subject to citizenship and lobotomy
 
Here's how certification works in the real world.

Someone could scribble the relevant information from my original paper birth certificate in crayon on a Denny's placemat, and if the Idaho registrar of vital records stamps it as certified, it's acceptable in court or for any other purpose that requires official government notice of my birth facts. If a question arises, and the registrar again certifies the document in hand as reproducing correctly the vital facts, then it has the full legal force of the original paper document.

Any challenge to the authenticity of it (and a crayon on a placement would probably net more than one challenge) has no legal standing after certification, because Full Faith and Credit preclude evidentiary questions of authenticity. That's exactly how it works, and exactly why it was put into place.

When I say that Robert and the Birthers don't understand Full Faith and Credit, I don't think they realize just how egregious their lack of understanding is. They misunderstand it fundamentally.
 
Originally Posted by Robert Prey
Because although the information may be consistent what with Hawaii now has in hand (and we don't even know that), we don't know when or how such information was obtained. It may have been obtained weeks, months or years after the alleged birth. And the info may only be traced to a Declaration of Birth and not a Birth Certificate.
Click to expand...

The "alleged" birth? You doubt that the man was born? For crap's sake, what is your bottom line?
1/ Where do you think Barack Obama was born?
2/ When do you think he was born?
3/ Who do you think was his mother?
4/ Who do you think was his father?
5/ When do you think he came to the United States?
6/ What is your evidence for each of the above answers?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom