Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

[William Parcher]

To get a sense of how truly odd and unexpected the name "Wood Ape" is, you need to be presented with similar (hypothetical) examples...

We are on the verge of confirming the existence of a new species of fish. Cool, what are you calling it? "Water Fish".

We are on the verge of confirming the existence of a new species of canid. Cool, what are you calling it? "Land Dog".

 

[DennyT]

bipto wrote:

there is clearly nothing you can say to make me change my mind regarding their existence

hmmm. Doesn't sound like a skeptical approach, bipto.
There IS something, (in fact, several things) that would cause US to change our minds. Are we clear?

Now, I really think you ought to pursue these dung beetles. You mentioned that you sometimes find bear scat. Certainly you find deer scat, and porcupine scat and rabbit scat. Sometimes horse doo on the roads, right? So what is it with these dung beetles? Do they selectively find the massive poo of the "bigfoot" of modern folklore, as soon as it's passed, and work on it through the night so it is gone by daylight. I think you ought to do some calculations on that. How much dung would a dung beetle do if a dung beetle could do dung? sort of thing.

Different types of dung beetles are sometimes classified as rollers, tunnelers, or dwellers. These descriptions refer to what a dung beetle does with excrement. Roller dung beetles will roll the dung into a ball before doing anything else with it. Those classified as tunnelers will bury the excrement, and dwellers will bore a cavity in the excrement before living in it.

 

[Jodie]

Ahhh well Bipto, you can always put them on ignore. I didn't comment on the hair because there really isn't anything to say until you publish the results from the testing.

The audio: This is why I stopped recording where I live. In hilly areas you have bad acoustics, it's hard to distinguish where sound is coming from, or how loud it is. Everything walking through dry leaves sounds like it's 10 feet tall, including moles.

Had you not told me the sound files were rocks on a roof I would have said it was sporadic rain on a metal roof because that is exactly what it sounds like to me. I never thought to ask if your cabins had metal roofs.

 

[Shiner]

/Originally Posted by bipto
Like most kids in the 70's, I had an interest driven by Leonard Nimoy and the Six Million Dollar Man. It went dormant until about 2002, then I started the Bigfoot Forums. I've been active in the field since about 2006, more so in recent years. /

I was just wondering since you have been a member of the JREF here since 2006 and havent posted until just recently ?

I wondered the same. I also wondered why you would start the Bigfoot forums (years?) before you became active in the feild.

I may be reading that the wrong way, but it reads to me as,

"I started some BF websites in 2002, then started looking for BF in 2006, but not in any serious way..... until recently ."

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for civility.

Very interesting reading AlaskaBushPilots last post. We have similar organisations in Australia, dedicated to our Yowie. Another version of Bigfoot, with about the same level of investigation and evidence. IE, none.

 

[exeplis]

I've been following this topic for a while now from the shadows and the biggest question on my mind is how would "I thought I was shooting at bigfoot." hold up in the real world following the shooting of either a hoaxer or a curious person who wanders into a search for bigfoot camp out like this? Would it just be considered an accidental shooting, or would the shooters mental health be called into question?

 

[MadAxe]

In think that the continual use of "Wood Ape" as a name instead of Bigfoot or Sasquatch is interesting... I think it's done intentionally for shock or drama value.

Seems to me like the idea is just the opposite. 'Bigfoot' is a moniker that has attained notoriety as a kitchy, campy and perjorative/dismissive term. The same for 'Sasquatch', albeit to a lesser degree. The term 'Wood Ape' seems like a rather bland, generic name, intended to describe something that decidedly natural in origin, if posessed of unusual and unique qualities.

 

[remirol]

In think that the continual use of "Wood Ape" as a name instead of Bigfoot or Sasquatch is interesting.

It's done to provide a veneer of legitimacy and maintain the pretense that science is actually being done, rather than vacationing. See, when you say "I'm researching wood apes in Oklahoma", the average Joe won't look at you like you're a barking nutter.

I am further intrigued by additional developments in this thread per ABP, above, however. The plats will be interesting to see as well.

 

[DennyT]

'Bigfoot' is a bit of modern folklore moniker that has attained notoriety as a kitchy, campy and perjorative/dismissive term. The same for 'Sasquatch', albeit to a lesser degree. The term 'Wood Ape' seems like another bit of modern folklore a rather bland, generic name, intended to describe something that decidedly natural in origin, if posessed of unusual and unique qualities.

 

[DennyT]

To get a sense of how truly odd and unexpected the name "Wood Ape" is, you need to be presented with similar (hypothetical) examples...

We are on the verge of confirming the existence of a new species of fish. Cool, what are you calling it? "Water Fish".

We are on the verge of confirming the existence of a new species of canid. Cool, what are you calling it? "Land Dog".

I thought that "Wood Ape" is used to differentiate one bit of North American folklore from another: the "Skunk Ape." I could be wrong. I'll look to Dr. Meldrum to tell us the differences between the various "species."

 

[Drewbot]

The ones found on the scrub prairies of Oklahoma are called PLAINS APES, The ones found in the North woods of Michigan are called PINE APES, the ones found in New York are called CONCRETE APES, The ones found in Arizona are called DESERT APES, (in the mountains they are called HIGH-DESERT APES)

 

[DennyT]

Bipto,
I am surprised that you are not aware that fecal DNA analysis has been used for many years to identify animals:

NONINVASIVE GENETIC SAMPLING TOOLS FOR WILDLIFE
BIOLOGISTS: A REVIEW OF APPLICATIONS AND
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ACCURATE DATA COLLECTION
LISETTE P.WAITS,1 Department of Fish and Wildlife, University of Idaho, Moscow, ID 83844-1136, USA
DAVID PAETKAU, Wildlife Genetics International Inc., Box 274, Nelson, BC, V1L 5P9, Canada
Abstract: Noninvasive genetic sampling provides great potential for research and management applications in wildlife biology. Researchers can obtain DNA from a variety of sources including hair, feces, urine, feathers, shed skin, saliva, and egg shells without handling or observing animals. These samples can then be used to identify the presence of rare or elusive species, count and identify individuals, determine gender, and identify diet items, or samples can be used to evaluate genetic diversity, population structure, and mating system. We review the recent advancements and techniques used for identifying species, individuals, and gender. We also address the potential pitfalls of noninvasive genetic sampling and provide recommendations for laboratory- and field-based methods to improve the reliability and accuracy of data collected from noninvasive genetic samples.
JOURNAL OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT 69(4):1419–1433; 2005

 

[The Shrike]

Oh I think "wood ape" has its origins in Krantz's "bigfoot/Giganto" hypothesis, and folks like to use it as a hypothetical common name for the animal once it is described in the literature. In my experience, MadAxe has it right: "bigfoot" has a campy, pejorative quality about it that "wood ape" does not. Wood ape also distinguishes groups like the TBRC - who are sure they're dealing with an ape - from the Melbanites who are sure they're dealing with "the Sasquatch people."

 

[Resume]

The ones found on the scrub prairies of Oklahoma are called PLAINS APES, The ones found in the North woods of Michigan are called PINE APES, the ones found in New York are called CONCRETE APES, The ones found in Arizona are called DESERT APES, (in the mountains they are called HIGH-DESERT APES)

How about Sub-Arctic Apes? Like the caribou chasing footie.

 

[DennyT]

"Yard Apes" are human children, so there.

 

[AttorneyTom]

Oh I think "wood ape" has its origins in Krantz's "bigfoot/Giganto" hypothesis, and folks like to use it as a hypothetical common name for the animal once it is described in the literature. In my experience, MadAxe has it right: "bigfoot" has a campy, pejorative quality about it that "wood ape" does not. Wood ape also distinguishes groups like the TBRC - who are sure they're dealing with an ape - from the Melbanites who are sure they're dealing with "the Sasquatch people."

Perhaps the new term for BF which might be marketable would be "Leaf Chimp" or "Zagnut Stump Critter " ?

Of course fecal DNA testing is available. Pretty much anything that comes out of an animal is able to be tested and confirmed DNA wise. The animal that ingested the DNA bearing item.. and also the DNA bearing items ingested.

 

[jerrywayne]

A couple of observations.

The TBRC's hair sample lacks a medulla. For some reason unknown to me, this is an alleged characteristic of Bigfoot hair. Interestingly, human head hair may lack a medulla too. In fact: "Interrupted, fragmentary, and absent medulla are found only in humans." http://shs.westport.k12.ct.us/forensics/09-trace_evidence/splitting_hairs.htm

The rocks, nuts, and twigs assault on a TBRC team on Bipto's audio was pretty, pretty scary (A tip to Larry David). I would have phoned 911. But, if you are saying somebody or thing was throwing "twigs" against the side and roof of a cabin, you could reasonably surmise that the offender was very close. Even a giant ape couldn't hurl lightweight twigs too far. So, who is at fault for not locating this twig tosser right outside?

 

[GT/CS]

Doesn't the BFRO still claim the Jacob's bear photos, taken from a trailcam, are of a young bigfoot?

 

[River]

bipto: I'm curious if your group has ever made the police report public from the shooting incident? If so is there a link to it? (you can black out peoples names) I'm curious what the report says, and how your group reported the incident to the officers in comparison to what has been said online.

 

[DennyT]

At the BFF Operation Endurance Thread, bipto has posted an audio file of what he says are sounds made by the Bigfoot in area x, in which one can hear what sounds like "get back." Bipto insists this was not said by any of his team. Hilarity ensues as the bleevers attempt to avoid thinking about the obvious implications.

 

[jerrywayne]

bipto: I'm curious if your group has ever made the police report public from the shooting incident? If so is there a link to it? (you can black out peoples names) I'm curious what the report says, and how your group reported the incident to the officers in comparison to what has been said online.

If memory serves, it was not TBRC that filed a report, but a Branson family member who was seeking damages because his vehicle was smashed up a bit as he was trying to flee from gunfire near the site. The TBRC paid to have his car repaired.

It would be interesting to know what the officer thought when interviewing the shooter.