Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[tsig]

What I don't get is that 'high treason' is very specifically defined as betraying one's king. But since Obama is the president, he's essentially the king of America. Does that mean he's betraying himself?

I guess it means he was smoking dope while committing his crimes.

 

[CORed]

Baloney. All you've presented are "objects are not layers" techno-babble, but no proof of anything.

If Robert doesn't understand it. It's not proof. This explains why it's so difficult to prove anything in Robert's world.

 

[Belz...]

Each and every statement here a very thick slice of Baloney.

Robert, do you believe posts like yours somehow constitute rebuttals ?

 

[CORed]

Outright bare faced lies now, Robert? Is that all you have left?

Dave

It's really all he ever had. He's just making it more obvious now.

 

[Dcdrac]

Robert what part of layers are objects do you fail to understand?

What part of all PDFs are made up of objects and therefore all PDFS have layers do you not get?

 

[Mudcat]

I guess it means he was smoking dope while committing his crimes.

'High' treason, how droll.

If Robert doesn't understand it. It's not proof. This explains why it's so difficult to prove anything in Robert's world.

What do they understand, other than cold cuts?

 

[332nd]

Over 300,000 views!

Onward and upward.

Hey... I'm learning a lot about PDFs & getting a chuckle out of Rps floundering every now & again.

 

[Border Reiver]

'High' treason, how droll.



What do they understand, other than cold cuts?

He could at least provide a better type of luncheon meat. Or an actual argument beyond "I don't understand it/don't want my worldview changed/etc, therefore the factual responses to my hypotheticals/questions/etc are wrong."

 

[abaddon]

In that case, perhaps someone should explain that to Adobe.

http://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/kb/printing-complex-pdfs-acrobat.html

"PDF files can contain layered content if they are created from layered documents by using applications such as Adobe InDesign. As a result, a single page of the PDF file can contain different layers with different content."

Uhh, did it not occur to you that that was a non-sequiter?

 

[JayUtah]

Uhh, did it not occur to you that that was a non-sequiter?

Obviously not. He probably just Googled "PDF AND layers" and just copypasted the one paragraph that seemed to say what he wanted to say, without really understanding any of it.

The printable objects in the Obama PDF are transparency groups. These associate content with a clipping mask. Here's what the Adobe PDF language reference has to say about them.

"Note: The concept of a transparency group is independent of existing notions of “group” or “layer” in applications such as Adobe Illustrator. Those groupings reflect logical relationships among objects that are meaningful when editing those objects, but they are not part of the imaging model."
(Adobe Systems. PDF Reference: Adobe portable document format version 1.4. 3d ed., Addison-Wesley: 2001, p. 411, emphasis added)​

It is expressly against Adobe's design intent to conflate transparency objects in PDF files with logical layers in their creative products. Yet this is exactly what Mara Zebest did.

Layered content in PDF documents is implemented by Acrobat Professional using a PieceInfo entry in an object of type /Page. "Applications can use this dictionary as a place to store any private data they wish in connection with that page or form. Such private data can convey information meaningful to the application that produces it (such as information on object grouping for a graphics editor or the layer information used by Adobe Photoshop), but is typically ignored by general-purpose PDF viewer applications" (Ibid., p. 581, emphasis added).

Adobe here tells us what to look for in PDFs that retain any sort of information about logical layers from their original editors and creators. Zebest's expectation is uninformed.

How many PagePiece entries are there in the Obama PDF's single /Page object? Robert, can you answer that? Hm, I can.

 

[abaddon]

Obviously not. He probably just Googled "PDF AND layers" and just copypasted the one paragraph that seemed to say what he wanted to say, without really understanding any of it.

The printable objects in the Obama PDF are transparency groups. These associate content with a clipping mask. Here's what the Adobe PDF language reference has to say about them.

"Note: The concept of a transparency group is independent of existing notions of “group” or “layer” in applications such as Adobe Illustrator. Those groupings reflect logical relationships among objects that are meaningful when editing those objects, but they are not part of the imaging model."
(Adobe Systems. PDF Reference: Adobe portable document format version 1.4. 3d ed., Addison-Wesley: 2001, p. 411, emphasis added)​

It is expressly against Adobe's design intent to conflate transparency objects in PDF files with logical layers in their creative products. Yet this is exactly what Mara Zebest did.

Layered content in PDF documents is implemented by Acrobat Professional using a PieceInfo entry in an object of type /Page. "Applications can use this dictionary as a place to store any private data they wish in connection with that page or form. Such private data can convey information meaningful to the application that produces it (such as information on object grouping for a graphics editor or the layer information used by Adobe Photoshop), but is typically ignored by general-purpose PDF viewer applications" (Ibid., p. 581, emphasis added).

Adobe here tells us what to look for in PDFs that retain any sort of information about logical layers from their original editors and creators. Zebest's expectation is uninformed.

How many PagePiece entries are there in the Obama PDF's single /Page object? Robert, can you answer that? Hm, I can.

Nice, but with Bob, I suspect we will be all the way back to "%%PDF".

 

[JayUtah]

Nice, but with Bob, I suspect we will be all the way back to "%%PDF".

That assumes he can figure out how to look at the raw PDF directives, rather than simply have a program render the PDF on his screen.

 

[jadebox]

Hawaii state officials have certified that the information shown on the scanned birth certificate matches what they have on file.

Oh, but it does matter. Information is one thing and may have been added or substituted at a later date, but the State has refused to confirm that the BC copy is really a copy of the original. Now why would the state refuse to make such a confirmation? The answer is too obvious.

Yes. The answer is they haven't refused. They, in fact, have officially confirmed it five separate times now - three times on certified copies of the certificate itself, and twice more in official verification letters regarding the information contained on those certificates.

"information." Yes. exact copy, no.

So, you agree that the information is correct - that Obama was born in Hawaii.

Why did it take such a round about discussion to arrive at this?

-- Roger

 

[JayUtah]

Why did it take such a round about discussion to arrive at this?

Because while Robert concedes that Hawaii has certified the information to the extent required by law (and then some), he now argues that Hawaii officials are lying. He demands that they open up access to their archives so that other people (whom he refuses to name or qualify) can inspect the original paper document. He argues that the present unwillingness to do so constitutes a suspicious concealment.

 

[TjW]

Well, to be fair. If one is not born in the U.S. and one claims to be born in the U.S. and uses that claim as an important step in becoming POTUS, then I think one is within spitting distance from treason.

Of course, that charge would require President Obama to know he wasn't born in the U.S. If he falsely, but sincerely believed he was a natural born U.S. citizen, then that is a different can of worms.

No.
The Constitution is very specific about what constitutes treason.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

That's it. Those are the two things that are treason against the U.S. Nothing else.
The act of being elected President, even if not eligible and you know it, does not levy war against the United States, nor is it an overt act giving enemies of the U.S. aid and comfort. It therefore cannot be treason as defined in the Constitution in any way, shape or form.

 

[Robert Prey]

Because while Robert concedes that Hawaii has certified the information to the extent required by law (and then some), he now argues that Hawaii officials are lying. He demands that they open up access to their archives so that other people (whom he refuses to name or qualify) can inspect the original paper document. He argues that the present unwillingness to do so constitutes a suspicious concealment.

“Unless and until Mr. Obama’s original birth record, on file with the Department of Health in Hawaii, is presented as evidence to a judicial or administrative body or official, it cannot legally be considered to have probative value. In other words … it cannot stand alone without further corroboration, as required by an ‘administrative body or official,” -- Larry Klayman

http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/obama-lawyer-warned-against-certifying-eligibility/?cat_orig=us

 

[A'isha]

“Unless and until Mr. Obama’s original birth record, on file with the Department of Health in Hawaii, is presented as evidence to a judicial or administrative body or official, it cannot legally be considered to have probative value. In other words … it cannot stand alone without further corroboration, as required by an ‘administrative body or official,” -- Larry Klayman

And why should we take the word of Larry Klayman, The Worst Lawyer in the World^TM, for this? Considering how badly he has lost every single birther case he has been involved in, it appears he has no idea what he's talking about here.

 

[Robert Prey]

No.
The Constitution is very specific about what constitutes treason.



That's it. Those are the two things that are treason against the U.S. Nothing else.
The act of being elected President, even if not eligible and you know it, does not levy war against the United States, nor is it an overt act giving enemies of the U.S. aid and comfort. It therefore cannot be treason as defined in the Constitution in any way, shape or form.

"Aid and comfort" -- remember that audio/video clip of O and Dmitry Medvedev where O whispers to tell PUtin that as soon as he is re-elected he'l be more accommodating to Russian interests? Aid and comfort from one crypto- Marxist to another.

 

[Robert Prey]

So, you agree that the information is correct - that Obama was born in Hawaii.

Why did it take such a round about discussion to arrive at this?

-- Roger

The information Hawaii may be on file, but that does not make it true, nor do we really know if that info is from an actual Birth Certificate or merely from a Declaration of Birth.

 

[A'isha]

The information Hawaii may be on file, but that does not make it true,

No, the fact that it's true makes it true.

nor do we really know if that info is from an actual Birth Certificate or merely from a Declaration of Birth.

Actually, we do know. Because the State of Hawaii made a photocopy of it onto official security paper, and the State Registrar both certified it as a true copy of the original and separately verified the information on it in a letter to the courts.

It's more real than you are, Robert.