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Evidence that Cro-Magnon man came from Africa
- Thread starter MaGZ
- Start date
SezMe
post-pre-born
Sounds like a good idea, MaGZ. Where are you looking? What resources have you brought to bear on your effort? What academic institutions and scholars have you contacted? What progress have you made? Do you have any tentative conclusions?
Wait a minute! Maybe I misread your OP. You're certainly not asking JREFers to do your evidence gathering for you, are you?
Wait a minute! Maybe I misread your OP. You're certainly not asking JREFers to do your evidence gathering for you, are you?
Halfcentaur
Philosopher
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2010
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- 6,620
So I suppose real evidence like genetic markers we can track across populations that are today present in modern man don't count as evidence?
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
The first gracile humans are all in africa, cro-magnon is just the same. The gracile humans appear around 150,000 bp, cro-magnon about 40,000 bp. So what makes you think cro-magnon is not a gracile homo sapiens sapiens?
Differences as minor as teeth do not a separate species make, what make you think cro-magnon is different from the homo sapiens sapiens in africa that are 90,000 years older?
LarianLeQuella
Elf Wino
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- Nov 12, 2008
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- 2,084
Um, please clarify... The term 'Cro-Magnon', which has no formal taxonomic status, as it refers neither to a species or subspecies, nor to an archaeological phase or culture. (WP)
What are you looking for again?
I Ratant
Penultimate Amazing
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- 19,258
.
A & E were of course, proto-Jews.
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Well, my first suggestion is to stop looking for Cro-Magnon. As others have said, that name has fallen out of use among researchers. The issue is that you're not going to find much useful data using the wrong term. I'd suggest using more formal genus and species names--that'll both get you the data you're after, and cut through a lot of the garbage that crops up in this sort of discussion (it's not perfect, but it's a good first-order filter).
As far as modern humans go, this is a diverse and active field of study. There are two ways you can approach it: First, you can look at the modern data, through sites like Academia.edu, Google Scholar, and the like (you're going to have to put some cash into this--while you can get a lot of publications for free, others aren't going to be cheap). This will give you an understanding of the latest and greatest research, never a bad thing. Alternatively, you can get ahold of some resources on the history of this debate (Gould's "Mismeasure of a Man" comes to mind, as does "Darwin's Century"; I'll be honest, though, I haven't really looked into this topic in any great depth, as human remains aren't my thing). This question was one that many people debated, often quite pasionately, over the past few centuries, and it's only relatively recently that the modern consensus has emerged. A good book on the history of those debates would provided the data that finally ended them, which (considering the nature of the debates) is precisely the type of data you're asking for.
In general terms, the logic is that the First Appearance Datum for modern humans is in Africa. Attempts to move the point of human origins elsewhere have to contend with the fact that human remains in Africa extend to older times than human remains anywhere else. There's also genetic diversity--only a subset of humans left Africa, and frankly there's more diversity in Africa than anywhere else (I've never understood how anyone could claim that all black people look the same). Genetic studies have shown that this is because, again, only a subset of humans left Africa--meaning that all of us non-Africans share common ancestors (well, not QUITE true--there are a small number of out-of-Africa ancestors, as there were successive migrations out of Africa). So there are paleontological lines of evidence, and genetic lines of evidence.
MG1962
Unregistered
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aggle-rithm
Ardent Formulist
MG1962
Unregistered
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No - our sheep are just naturally bred for better flexibility
Thank you, for that. My sleep-deprived, virus-riddled brain has now latched on to the grinning face of a hairy Scott clad in a kilt, a shirt, and a smile grinning as he holds a sheep from behind. Sheering in Alabama was fun.....
Here's what I don't get: The actual data are controversial enough. We're talking about a debate that ranged for over a hundred years, and it's not a stretch to say that people died because of this debate (lives were certainly ruined, as were whole cultures). Why manufacture controversy? It's inherent in the system in question!aggle-rithm said:
Skwinty
Philosopher
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- Jun 16, 2008
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- 5,593
Hogwash.
You obviously haven't read Jean M. Auel.
Speculative fiction is not my genre.
“What a total load of poppycock!”
~ Oscar Wilde on Hogwash
"Hogwash is one of the most abundant elements in the known Universe. It is third in line of prevalence behind crap and tedium and before the fourth most common element poppycock. While similar in structure (some consider it isometric with poppycock), it is not to be confused with either of the above, nor is it to be categorized with the universal elements Fluffiness, Holiness, and Evilness. The term hogwash has a very rich etymological history, owing its frequent inclusion as a catch phrase in popular culture and dialogue to its overpowering presence on Earth, the Moon, and several orbiting comets in our Solar System. It was first isolated in 1502AD by the 53rd incarnation of the Bhudda, but in more modern history has been produced with industrial capacity by reducing a solution of humor and wit in a solvent rich in the potent element human stupidity. While it is most often used in conversation, it can also represent the natural phenomenon also known as pig rain, in which pigs, which until recently have been flying due to someone's overuse of crap, collect to form a cloud and fall back to the earth. From an alternate application of the term, Hogwash has also been connected with the popular phrase "**** hitting the fan" due to the close relationship between swine and their general lack of sanitation, as well as the actual process of washing a pig for the same reason."
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hogwash
Halfcentaur
Philosopher
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- Jun 10, 2010
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- 6,620
What are the alternative ideas? The Africans migrated to Africa from Europe? Are Europeans and Africans supposed to be different species who emerged around the same time and just happen to be able to breed?
They certainly sing a lot about it!!:
Ewe are My Special Angel, Ewe Wonderful Ewe, But Will Ewe Love Me Tomorrow.................................