The Odd Lies of Paul Ryan

[JoeTheJuggler]

I suspect he meant to be slightly trimming his time by saying slightly under 4 hrs (rather than slightly over), but misspoke. Someone who has only run one marathon might make a mistake like that.

Anyway, I'd put this in a class other than his political lies.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

There's plenty of things to criticize about how things are going, there's certainly no point in lying.

Sure there is. The point is to try to sway uninformed voters.

Some of these lies Ryan has repeated had been debunked for many months now. So they're obviously aiming at an uninformed audience.

The fact is the GOP is not offering much of any substance other than criticism of what Obama had done (or failed to do). I don't think you can win on a Obama's-policies-are-bad platform if you offer no credible policies of your own.

I think it's a particularly cynical approach to this campaign. I'm not sure, but I suspect many of the undecideds at this point are those uninformed voters who are vulnerable to a misinformation campaign based on repeating long-debunked falsehoods.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

on the debt ceiling

S&P's announcement said in part, "The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy … [This] weakens the government's ability to manage public finances …" It seems to me that both the game of chicken and the longer term fiscal issues were partially to blame for the downgrade. I found this quote at a blog at The Economist. Its author wrote, "As S&P's announcement makes clear, the inadequacy of the deal was only one motivation. As important (to me, even more important) was the the reckless and divisive battle that preceded it"

Michael Kinsley wrote about the debt ceiling debate, "It’s an odd way to show fiscal discipline. It’s as if you went to the bank where you are behind in your mortgage payments and said, 'Look, I’m sorry, but I’ve just been borrowing too much and wasting it on stupid, needless purchases. So as of now, I’m going to stop paying what I owe. Aren’t I wonderful for getting my appetites under control at last?'"

 

[I'll_buy_that]

I find it funny that those who blame Obama for the GM plant closure are the same that say the fed gov't should not be involved in private enterprise. If the Fed Gov't had given money to prop up a GM plant that was obviously closing because it wasn't financially viable, these same people would be outraged.

 

[Brainster]

FactCheck.org says otherwise:

Somebody needs to fact check Fact Check.

Faulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office.

Faulted Obama for failing to deliver a 2008 campaign promise to keep a Wisconsin plant open. It closed less than a month before Obama took office.

Fact: The Janesville plant stayed open until April of 2009, as this news report from a local TV station reveals:



See also a February 2009 news article:

Full-size sport utility vehicle production has ended at the local General Motors plant, but medium-duty truck production is continuing—not starting—in Janesville.

And it likely will continue into May, when the lights finally go off in the facility that has been producing vehicles since 1923.

Fact Check also claims:

Medicare’s money isn’t being taken away.

But Obama himself acknowledged the cuts to Medicare:

 

[varwoche]

Kaosium, at least I hope you apply your hyper-semantic lie meter in a fair and balanced way.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman

coitus

Bill Clinton and Paul Ryan, straight shooters. Right?

 

[I'll_buy_that]

This is a trivial lie. if you read it, it sounds like someone trying to impress a woman at a bar. "Yea, i ran marathons. finished under 3... want to go home with me?"

"H. H.: Are you still running?
P. R.: Yeah, I hurt a disc in my back, so I don’t run marathons anymore. I just run ten miles or [less].
H. H.: But you did run marathons at some point?
P. R.: Yeah, but I can’t do it anymore, because my back is just not that great.
H. H.: I’ve just gotta ask, what’s your personal best?
P. R.: Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.
H. H.: Holy smokes. All right, now you go down to Miami University…
P. R.: I was fast when I was younger, yeah."

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...isstated-his-marathon-time.html#ixzz25KgEaQrl

 

[BenBurch]

...

Bill Clinton and Paul Ryan, straight shooters. Right?

I know for fact that Bill is straight. Not so sure about Ryan...

 

[Olowkow]

Ryan told radio host Hugh Hewitt last month ( August 22) he had run a "two hour and fifty-something" marathon.

"The race was more than 20 years ago, but my brother Tobin—who ran Boston last year—reminds me that he is the owner of the fastest marathon in the family and has never himself ran a sub-three. If I were to do any rounding, it would certainly be to four hours, not three. He gave me a good ribbing over this at dinner tonight (Sept 1)."

Too much time has gone by since Ryan's statement for this to be a mere lapse in memory which is now finally being updated by brother Tobin. This strikes me as more dissembling and covering up by involving his brother. Now what if someone should ask Tobin, "Why didn't you call Paul last month and tell him he got it wrong?"

I agree that in the grand scheme of things, small lies don't matter that much, but if this is in fact a pattern, it is very important.

 

[BenBurch]

NM

 

[Magyar]

I agree that in the grand scheme of things, small lies don't matter that much, but if this is in fact a pattern, it is very important.

YEs, but this kind of thinking is what leads to
Vouchers are as good as the program we have now.
Having seniors have to pay for the donut hole is the same as no change when we recall obamacare.
and " I don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud"

Lying is bad enough but when you believe your own lies your perception of reality changes and as appoligists in this thread as well as the candidates indicated FACTS no longer matter.

Then we have 1984 Orwellian world.

 

[Olowkow]

I thought of a Zappa song for some reason. The "big lies" are what makes these folks so scary.

When the lie's so big
And the fog gets so thick
And the facts disappear
The republican trick
Can be played out again
People, please tell me when
We'll be rid of these men!

From: http://www.metrolyrics.com/when-the-lies-so-big-lyrics-frank-zappa.html

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Think about if for a minute: why in the hell would a speechwriter write, or Ryan approve, a bunch of lies for his Convention appearance?

To sway uninformed voters.

ETA: Also I hope you recognize the fallacy of your reasoning. Arguing that he had no reason to lie (that you can discern, anyway) isn't the same thing as a defense against the very solid arguments made that he did in fact tell a pack of lies.

 

[Robrob]

Because it's either not true (convention speech) or it's irrelevant nonsense (like this) that just gets called a 'lie' to 'suggest' he must be a 'congenital liar.'

Tell you what, you and I participated in a thread together where you made several mistaken statements repeatedly despite being corrected and I happened to know that. In my view that doesn't make you a liar, just wrong, it happens to everyone including me of course. Looking for such a thing and spinning it as a 'lie' you can turn anyone who's done much of any posting on the internet into a 'congenital liar.'

However the reality is it just reveals the dishonest tactics of those who do it.

So this was true? Or are you suggesting he doesn't know his own marathon time?

P. R.: Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.

Kind of precise for not knowing...

 

[Tricky]

I am just a poor boy
Son of Janesville, son of man
And I’ve squandered all my honor
Just help our zombie win it, such are VP’s roles.

I lie and jest
‘Cause I do just what the rich guys want
To hell with all the rest
Once I had some real ideas
But now all I do is lie.

Lie lie lie,
Lie-la lie lie, lie-la lie
Lie lie lie,
Lie-la lie lie, lie-la lie, la-la-lie lie lie

Tried to loan Mitt my charisma.
So forget my budget plan.
Now I parrot Party Platform
And repeat the stories old
Of how Obamacare will kill us
How he closed my hometown plant
I don’t care about fact checkers
When I’m on a lying rant.

Lie lie lie,
Lie-la lie lie, lie-la lie
Lie lie lie,
Lie-la lie lie, lie-la lie, la-la-lie lie lie

(Apologies to Paul Simon and "The Boxer")​

​

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I thought of a Zappa song for some reason.

Funny, what comes to my mind when considering Romney's choice of Ryan as running mate is the phrase: "That's the ticket!"

 

[Olowkow]

I am just a poor boy
Son of Janesville, son of man
And I’ve squandered all my honor
Just help our zombie win it, such are VP’s roles.

I lie and jest
‘Cause I do just what the rich guys want
To hell with all the rest
Once I had some real ideas
But now all I do is lie.

...

I like it!

 

[marplots]

(Clipped a bunch to get to this)
Again, 'most importantly' ()that the Janesville plant didn't actually shut down until after Obama took office, but that still doesn't matter as that's not what Ryan was getting at.

And here is the quote referenced from Ryan's speech:

Originally Posted by Paul Ryan Convention Speech 8/29/12
"My home state voted for President Obama," he said. "When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

"A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: 'I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.' That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight."

Read what Ryan quotes Obama as saying. Then, when Ryan says, "And that's how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight."

Does Obama promise any recovery for the plant? Nope. What Obama says is "...if our government is there to support you..." The government wasn't there to support them, so the plant closed. Obama never promised to keep the plant open.

I call lie because Ryan says a promise was made that wasn't made at all.

 

[dropzone]

Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most marathon runners remember EXACTLY their times in each race, even at twenty years remove? That quote would send up a red flag for me.

 

[Frank Newgent]

Wisconsin politicians of both parties have a long tradition of being mavericks and independent sometimes. We kinda like that.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1954/1101540308_400.jpg