The Odd Lies of Paul Ryan

[Puppycow]

It seems that the GOP presidential nominee has again, as four years ago, chosen a congenital liar as his running mate:

Lie or Mistake? Paul Ryan’s Marathoning Past

Yesterday, Paul Ryan got in a little trouble for telling Hugh Hewitt in a radio interview that he had run a marathon in just under three hours. As I wrote, runners were skeptical, and eventually his claim was revealed to be untrue: he actually ran a marathon in just over four hours.

. . .

Does the misstatement—or lie, or fib—matter? As James Fallows pointed out on The Atlantic, in one way it obviously doesn’t. It has no bearing at all on the republic how fast Paul Ryan ran. Ryan could also surely beat any of the other major candidates, or the Supreme Court justices, in a foot race. But in another way it is important: Is the potential Vice President the sort of person who lies congenitally? In that sense it matters.

Here’s the transcript of what Ryan said to Hewitt:

H. H.: Are you still running?
P. R.: Yeah, I hurt a disc in my back, so I don’t run marathons anymore. I just run ten miles or [less].
H. H.: But you did run marathons at some point?
P. R.: Yeah, but I can’t do it anymore, because my back is just not that great.
H. H.: I’ve just gotta ask, what’s your personal best?
P. R.: Under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something.
H. H.: Holy smokes. All right, now you go down to Miami University…
P. R.: I was fast when I was younger, yeah.​

What’s striking about the exchange is how he responds to Hewitt’s “Holy smokes.” A four-hour marathon, for a twenty-year-old, is not something that elicits a “holy smokes.” It’s entirely average; in fact, for the race that Ryan ran, it was below average. In the marathon in question, he finished in nineteen hundred and ninetieth place, out of just thirty-two hundred and seventy-seven male runners. (A 2:55 would have had him at a hundred and thirtieth.) But Hewitt’s reaction didn’t set off any alarm. Instead, Ryan could tell that he had just impressed his host, and he reinforced it, saying “I was fast when I was younger, yeah.”

Also, it seems that he has run exactly one marathon in his life. He comes off though as if he used to run them frequently. He uses the plural and talks about his "personal best" as if he did it more than once.

A spokesman confirmed late Friday that the Republican vice presidential candidate has run one marathon. That was the 1990 Grandma’s Marathon in Duluth, Minnesota, where Ryan, then 20, is listed as having finished in 4 hours, 1 minute, and 25 seconds.

 

[tyr_13]

An exaggeration about running when he was twenty is important because? What does this have to do with anything?

 

[Robrob]

An exaggeration about running when he was twenty is important because? What does this have to do with anything?

Can you imagine how this would play out if it were Obama?

 

[Montag451]

An exaggeration about running when he was twenty is important because? What does this have to do with anything?

Trust, simply trust.

If he lies when there is absolutely no reason to lie then what will he do when there might be a reason?

Most non partisan non wing nuts elect based on who they trust to do the right thing for themselves and the country in general.

A stupid lie that reveals a great deal about a candidate.

 

[Kaosium]

This is what's called a 'smear.' There's no lies in his convention speech, they just lied about that and now look for anything that might qualify, including whether it was around three or four hours he did in a race twenty years ago. Clinton was caught cheating at golf when he was president, and Obama even took a veiled shot at him once about it.

However they invent the meme and then look for 'evidence' to support it, no matter how lame. Look at how it ends, it sounds all fair and everything:

"Was it just a flat lie? There’s one very strong argument that it wasn’t: how the campaign responded. When I first contacted them and asked about the race, a spokesman immediately wrote back, “Sure—it was the Grandma’s marathon in Duluth, MN as a junior in college, back in 1991 to the best of his recollection.”

If the campaign had known that he was close to getting busted for a fib, that’s not how they would have responded. They would have dodged the question, immediately apologized, or tried to mislead. “He can’t really remember; it was some race near Minnesota when he was in his early twenties” would have been a more logical response for a campaign in danger.

So what was it? A lie, or a mis-remembrance? Only Paul Ryan knows, and the evidence is mixed. If there aren’t more fibs of this sort—if he doesn’t magically transform himself from the bottom half to the top four per cent in other matters—I’ll let it pass. If more fibs, in more interviews and speeches, are found, I’m going to think that he lied. After Ryan’s convention speech, and its many dubious claims, Ryan Lizza wrote, “Ryan started this race with a reputation for honesty. He’s on his way to losing it.”

He has a reputation for honesty because he is. Especially as far as politicians go. However if they're looking for it and take the Dem spin on everything then they'll find whatever they need. Just like the tabloid trash does. "Just give me something, something I can use..."

 

[elbe]

Obviously Paul's speech was completely honest. His "lying" was just a smear spread by known vanguard of the left, Fox News!

 

[Robrob]

This is what's called a 'smear.' There's no lies in his convention speech, they just lied about that and now look for anything that might qualify, including whether it was around three or four hours he did in a race twenty years ago.

How is it a "smear" if it's true?

 

[Kaosium]

How is it a "smear" if it's true?

Because it's either not true (convention speech) or it's irrelevant nonsense (like this) that just gets called a 'lie' to 'suggest' he must be a 'congenital liar.'

Tell you what, you and I participated in a thread together where you made several mistaken statements repeatedly despite being corrected and I happened to know that. In my view that doesn't make you a liar, just wrong, it happens to everyone including me of course. Looking for such a thing and spinning it as a 'lie' you can turn anyone who's done much of any posting on the internet into a 'congenital liar.'

However the reality is it just reveals the dishonest tactics of those who do it.

 

[Kaosium]

Obviously Paul's speech was completely honest. His "lying" was just a smear spread by known vanguard of the left, Fox News!

If you're referring this article, that was an opinion piece from a [url=""http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Kohn]'progressive' political strategist.[/url] That's even more evidence of where this crap is coming from.

 

[elbe]

If you're referring this article, that was an opinion piece from a 'progressive' political strategist. That's even more evidence of where this crap is coming from.

Well, it was a joke, for one.

Second, everything I've seen shows clear evidence of lying by omission. It's still dishonest.

Third, I like the position that if a 'progressive' says something it's automatically assumed to be false. It makes your opinions rather suspect.

ETA: there are plenty of articles detailing the factual 'missteps' of Ryan's convention speech (like factcheck.org http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-spin/). Personally, I'd just recommend the Daily Show from Thursday night for video goodness.

 

[Brainster]

Exaggerating one's sports accomplishments seems to be something of a tradition for politicians. Anybody remember John Kerry claiming that he once ran the Boston Marathon?

 

[Kaosium]

Well, it was a joke, for one.

Second, everything I've seen shows clear evidence of lying by omission. It's still dishonest.

Third, I like the position that if a 'progressive' says something it's automatically assumed to be false. It makes your opinions rather suspect.

I come from where real progressives came from, not the sort using the title because it polls better. I was also simply pointing out that she's on the far left of the American political scene, not exactly a typical Fox news contributor, and perhaps you ought to take that into account as it didn't appear you did when you wrote your post.

ETA: there are plenty of articles detailing the factual 'missteps' of Ryan's convention speech (like factcheck.org http://factcheck.org/2012/08/ryans-vp-spin/). Personally, I'd just recommend the Daily Show from Thursday night for video goodness.

Yes, that's how a smear works. A group of like-minded people look for anything they can and spin it/misrepresent it/make a big deal about irrelevancies etc. It appears this whole thing started when these 'fact checkers' took the dishonest representation from 'Media Matters' and just kept repeating the same things. Differences in philosophy or a different interpretation of what happened than the Administration said about it are not lies! However if they call them that some people will believe it, spread it and look for 'more.' That's how a media feeding frenzy works!

It's why I dropped out of politics after tuning in and turning on. People just lap this crap up instead of talking about things that matter and it destroys people's confidence in politics. Hell, you should see what I wrote when I logged onto a right wing site when the Obama Birth Certificate crap was first being spread, I tore that apart too. Would you like me to track it down and post it here? I got a little carried away because I couldn't believe anyone could be that stupid, especially as that was very early for that 'issue' and the 'evidence' was so sparse. I defended Michele Obama on this board once, despite hardly ever venturing into the politics subforum as I've deliberately avoided politics for years now.

 

[elbe]

I come from where real progressives came from, not the sort using the title it polls better. I was also simply pointing out that she's on the far left of the American political scene, not exactly a typical Fox news contributor, and perhaps you ought to take that into account as it didn't appear you did when you wrote your post.

I don't take you inability to recognize jokes into account? Gosh. I'll try to be much more serious when dealing with delusions from now on, k?

 

[angrysoba]

Exaggerating one's sports accomplishments seems to be something of a tradition for politicians. Anybody remember John Kerry claiming that he once ran the Boston Marathon?

No. What did you say about it at the time?

 

[Kaosium]

I don't take you inability to recognize jokes into account? Gosh. I'll try to be much more serious when dealing with delusions from now on, k?

Fair enough, this sort of thing can make me meaner than a junkyard dog sometimes, though I usually try to have a sense of humor about it.

At least this episode has been enlightening in one respect, now I do know those 'fact checkers' are just taking activist spin and pretending it's 'fact.' I'd kinda wondered about that, now it's pretty much apparent. I wonder if there's another 'journolist' involved?

 

[Brainster]

No. What did you say about it at the time?

I certainly criticized it, and I have no problem with people criticizing Ryan for it. As it turned out Kerry was something of a fabulist; there were numerous examples of him making up stories about himself. He claimed to have gone into Cambodia; that never happened. He claimed to have delivered a breech-birth baby to a Vietnamese woman on his Swift Boat; that also did not happen.

If it turns out that Ryan has a similar penchant for tall tales, I will find it troubling.

 

[Dorian Gray]

The presidential race is like a marathon, in that it's long, and easy for Paul Ryan to lie about.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I invented the internet whilst dodging Bosnian snipers.

 

[Dorian Gray]

Fair enough, this sort of thing can make me meaner than a junkyard dog sometimes, though I usually try to have a sense of humor about it.

At least this episode has been enlightening in one respect, now I do know those 'fact checkers' are just taking activist spin and pretending it's 'fact.' I'd kinda wondered about that, now it's pretty much apparent. I wonder if there's another 'journolist' involved?

Paul Ryan said he ran a marathon in under 3 hours. The record shows he did it in over 4 hours. That is a lie, not a smear or spin - unless you are accusing Paul Ryan of smearing himself. He also implied that a plant closed during Obama's presidency that actually closed during Bush's presidency. That was a lie.

If you have to explain that it's not because of Technicality01, or for any reason, then you must face the fact that Paul Ryan is not a straight shooter. There are four basic lies he told during his speech, and the four are all over the news. Unless you have a viable counterargument, it's not spin or a smear, it's proof that Ryan lies.

In other words, Wrongney/Lyin' 2012.

 

[Kaosium]

Paul Ryan said he ran a marathon in under 3 hours. The record shows he did it in over 4 hours. That is a lie,

No, it's not, not even the person who reported it got the impression he was trying to hide anything. He may have just been mistaken, he never ran a marathon again, or anything close to it as the article also points out.

not a smear or spin - unless you are accusing Paul Ryan of smearing himself.

No, he's being smeared and you're sucking it up.

He also implied that a plant closed during Obama's presidency that actually closed during Bush's presidency. That was a lie.

No, he didn't. He was lied about and you didn't catch it and continue to spread it.

Incidentally the plant did close during the Obama presidency, but that's not what he was getting at.

If you have to explain that it's not because of Technicality01, or for any reason, then you must face the fact that Paul Ryan is not a straight shooter. There are four basic lies he told during his speech, and the four are all over the news. Unless you have a viable counterargument, it's not spin or a smear, it's proof that Ryan lies.
In other words, Wrongney/Lyin' 2012.

I already answered all four of those dishonest claims in the GOP convention thread. Hopefully you will learn something about the credulity of certain elements in the media to a smear if they're still 'all over the news.'