Julian Assange: rapist or not?

[PhantomWolf]

I'm sorry, but for all the propaganda in the world, YOU DO NOT THREATEN TO STORM AN EMBASSY IN ORDER TO GET HOLD OF A PERSON WHO IS WANTED FOR QUESTIONING ABOUT HAVING CONSENSUAL SEX WITHOUT ASKING TO USE A CONDOM FIRST, OR WAKING SOMEBODY UP BY HAVING SEX WITH THEM WHEN YOU ALREADY HAD CONSENSUAL SEX WITH THEM THE PREVIOUS NIGHT.

BUT...you may well threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a person who has published the most damaging leaked material in US history.

I'm sorry, but when there's this much smoke, then there has to be a fire.

They didn't threaten to storm that embassy for that, and it's debatable that they even did threaten to storm it, rather that they pointed out that under British Law if they wished they could enter and arrest Assange. But regardless, if they had "stormed the place" the reason would have been that they were after a fugative from justice who had breached his bail conditions and was avoiding extradition based on a valid EAW which had been confirmed by three British courts. So besides that fact that he was wanted in Sweden because of allegations that THREE British Courts have agreed would be criminal in the UK (and would be in most if not all of the Western World and probably Ecuador too) by running, he violated British law and is now a fugitive from Justice under their Laws too.

 

[a_unique_person]

Whatever else you may think of the government of the US, is isn't populated by utter morons.

Utter morons populate many areas of human society, sometimes in positions of power. The decision to open up a war on two fronts in Afghanistan and Iraq would be a good example.

 

[a_unique_person]

Here is an article (oh, sorry, propaganda)

That was pretty tasteless, but the article was interesting. How did the story about the STD check come about if this claims it never happened?

 

[Here_to_learn]

That was pretty tasteless,

Possibly, but hey - I've never been accused of being a government shill before, so I'm pretty proud about it! I just need to figure out how I get paid...

but the article was interesting. How did the story about the STD check come about if this claims it never happened?

Don't know actually, it could be interesting to try to track down when and where it was first mentioned but I'm not sure if it can be done.

 

[lionking]

Right now, all you are presenting yourself as is a blowhard windbag screeching your utter hatred (and by the way, that makes you extremely biased) of the US Assange based on your conclusions of facts not in evidence.

Right back at ya.

The irrational hatred of Assange by most in ths thread is a sight to behold.

 

[PhantomWolf]

There are several interesting things in the article, for example that the two women did not go to the police to have them force an STD test on JA, but actually to file a complaint.

Nice find. I have to admit I even got sucked into that one, it appeared very early on. I didn't realise it was from Assange's lawyers.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Right back at ya.

The irrational hatred of Assange by most in ths thread is a sight to behold.

It's irrational to dislike a person that acts horribly towards women (his actions were reprehesible even if they don't amount to illegal,) blames them and everyone else for his predicament, then runs away when his feet start getting hot because of those same actions?

 

[PhantomWolf]

Utter morons populate many areas of human society, sometimes in positions of power. The decision to open up a war on two fronts in Afghanistan and Iraq would be a good example.

One would note that Bush isn't in control anymore.

 

[lionking]

It's irrational to dislike a person that acts horribly towards women (his actions were reprehesible even if they don't amount to illegal,) blames them and everyone else for his predicament, then runs away when his feet start getting hot because of those same actions?

In Sabrina's own words:

based on your conclusions of facts not in evidence

The bias against Assange is palpable, and certainly unskeptical.

 

[Sabrina]

Right back at ya.

The irrational hatred of Assange by most in ths thread is a sight to behold.

Please post where I have stated I hate Assange, please. To the best of my knowledge, all I have said about the man is that I'm more or less indifferent to him, and have in fact confined my contributions to this thread to refuting the irrational conclusion that the US is desperate to acquire Assange based on facts not in evidence. So either back up your assertion with proof, or kindly withdraw it; thank you.

 

[lionking]

Please post where I have stated I hate Assange, please. To the best of my knowledge, all I have said about the man is that I'm more or less indifferent to him, and have in fact confined my contributions to this thread to refuting the irrational conclusion that the US is desperate to acquire Assange based on facts not in evidence. So either back up your assertion with proof, or kindly withdraw it; thank you.

When you apologise for calling Undercover Elephant a blowhard windbag screeching hatred.

Unless, of course, you can back up this assertion......

 

[a_unique_person]

One would note that Bush isn't in control anymore.

Sabrina asked if the US is capable of such stupidity, I provided an example.

 

[WildCat]

One would note that Bush isn't in control anymore.

Australia is far away, news hasn't got there yet.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Undercover Elephant, I HIGHLY suggest that you actually READ the thread before contributing anything.

Why? So I can be knocked down by a tsunami of propaganda?

You do not threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a person who is wanted for questioning about relatively minor sex offences.

You may well threaten to do so to get hold of a person who has published a large amount of damaging, leaked material.

It does not matter how much propaganda you attempt to use to obscure the above facts, they will remain facts.

Right now, all you are presenting yourself as is a blowhard windbag screeching your utter hatred (and by the way, that makes you extremely biased) of the US based on your conclusions of facts not in evidence. There is no hard evidence the US wants Assange to be extradited to face charges here, since we have filed no extradition request and have not even presented any charges we feel we can charge him with in relation to the Wikileaks case, and in fact have concentrated our efforts against the true perpetrator of the crime, namely Bradley Manning. Assange is not nearly as important as he would like to believe.

I don't believe you. Assange doesn't believe you. Ecuador doesn't believe you. The US is not going to get hold of Assange. You have to learn to live with this.

I won't deny that the US would certainly like to see Wikileaks shut down, as would whatever other governments that have had secret documentation exposed by the website, but organizing a witch hunt does little to advance our cause. Right now, Assange is doing more to make himself irrelevant than any charges we could bring would ever do. The smart thing would be for the US to sit back and let him implode on his own, which he seems to be doing splendidly with no help from us.

He's not imploding. He's becoming a living martyr - a hero to everybody everywhere who is fighting against the rise of US fascism and totalitarianism.

The more time passes with no charges appearing from the US, the more paranoid Assange gets, and the more crazy he appears with his squawking about how the US is after him. Hoist by his own petard indeed. And all we have to do is... nothing. Now you tell me; which makes more sense to you? That we frantically try to trump up something in a country that makes it more difficult to extradite than one of our other allies, or that we simply sit back and let Assange commit his own political suicide of sorts?

Assange is doing nothing of the sort. Every day he remains free from US custody, is a victory.

Whatever else you may think of the government of the US, is isn't populated by utter morons.

Erm...

http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/corn-madness.html

In the talk you gave at the conference in Ireland you mentioned that there are certain regions of the US where the common people only eat garbage food from places like Walmart, which consists of artificial colors and flavors and corn, and that such a diet makes them "a little bit crazy." To my utter disappointment, I have to entirely agree with you. Various witty Russian commentators love to heap ridicule on the "dumb Americans" and on the USA as a generally stupid country. But if they spent a bit of time living here and paid closer attention, they would realize that it is not the low cultural level that distinguishes Americans from, say, Russians: both are, on average, quite beastly. But even when I've visited here before, as a student, my first impression was of a country that is full of madmen, ranging from somewhat mentally competent to total lunatics. And the further south I traveled, the more obvious this became. At first I even marveled at this, thinking, look at how intoxicating the spirit of liberty can be! But now I understand that this is a catastrophe, that American society is brainwashed and alienated in the extreme, and that all that's left for Americans to do is to play each other for the suckers that they have become.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

They didn't threaten to storm that embassy for that, and it's debatable that they even did threaten to storm it, rather that they pointed out that under British Law if they wished they could enter and arrest Assange. But regardless, if they had "stormed the place" the reason would have been that they were after a fugative from justice who had breached his bail conditions and was avoiding extradition based on a valid EAW which had been confirmed by three British courts. So besides that fact that he was wanted in Sweden because of allegations that THREE British Courts have agreed would be criminal in the UK (and would be in most if not all of the Western World and probably Ecuador too) by running, he violated British law and is now a fugitive from Justice under their Laws too.

YOU DO NOT THREATEN TO STORM AN EMBASSY IN ORDER TO GET HOLD OF A PERSON WHO IS WANTED FOR QUESTIONING ABOUT HAVING CONSENSUAL SEX WITHOUT ASKING TO USE A CONDOM FIRST, OR WAKING SOMEBODY UP BY HAVING SEX WITH THEM WHEN YOU ALREADY HAD CONSENSUAL SEX WITH THEM THE PREVIOUS NIGHT.

BUT...you may well threaten to storm an embassy to get hold of a person who has published the most damaging leaked material in US history.

 

[WildCat]

When you apologise for calling Undercover Elephant a blowhard windbag screeching hatred.

Unless, of course, you can back up this assertion......

Oh, that's an easy one:

I cheered when then the WTC came down.

It says "guest" because of a forum glitch long ago, but you can see people quoting him in that thread. He hasn't changed in the 9 years since.

 

[Sabrina]

<snip> That includes a profound distrust and dislike of almost everything that comes out of the United States of America. I'm not a marxist, but I am very much anti-American. It is therefore not a surprise that I support Assange for political reasons. I am not hiding this.

Back on topic, I will re-iterate my point: nearly everybody I have encountered peddling anti-Assange propaganda in recent days is a right-winger who hates Assange and wants to see him in US custody. They will claim that their opinions are being driven by their dislike of rapists, when in reality they just want to see Assange silenced, and punished for what he has already done.
There are also two other, smaller groups of people supporting the propaganda. One lot are Swedes who are indignant about what is being said about the Swedish justice system. The other lot are radical feminists who are using this case to highlight their general beliefs about men and attitudes to rape (they are upset about people like George Galloway dismissing the rape allegations as ridiculous, regardless of the fact that in this particular case they really are ridiculous. This is just wrong-headed. You do not help genuine rape victims by taking politically-motivated rape allegations seriously.)

Hmmm, let's see here... hatred of the US? Check. Irrational statements with no evidence to back them up? Check. Numerous posts calling people who happen to be against the notion of a law-breaker getting away with his crime names or asserting that they want a man silenced for political reasons rather than the actual truth, that they simply want him to face up to his potential wrongdoing? Check, check, and check.

I'm waiting for that retraction, lionking.

 

[UndercoverElephant]

Wildcat,

I have been consistently "anti-American", if that is what you mean. My beliefs and attitudes towards the United States go back a long way, and run very deep. It started in my teens (I'm 43), primarily because of two things: the anti-scientific/pseudo-scientific nonsense of the US religious right, and the anti-scientific political response to climate change. Since then, all I've found is other reasons to dislike the United States.

I'm not alone. A significant proportion of the world's population don't exactly like America.

Had I been in Assange's position (having come into the possession of that material) then I would have done exactly the same thing: publish all of it.

 

[lionking]

Hmmm, let's see here... hatred of the US? Check. Irrational statements with no evidence to back them up? Check. Numerous posts calling people who happen to be against the notion of a law-breaker getting away with his crime names or asserting that they want a man silenced for political reasons rather than the actual truth, that they simply want him to face up to his potential wrongdoing? Check, check, and check.

I'm waiting for that retraction, lionking.

Statements you disagree with? Check.

Blowhard windbag screeching hatred? Nope.

No retraction. I believe your posts display an irrational hatred of Assange. Sue me.

 

[Sabrina]

So, your reason for assuming, WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE AND IGNORING ALL THE EVIDENCE AGAINST IT PRESENTED IN THIS VERY THREAD, that the US is after Assange is because you're biased.

Thanks for clearing that up, UE.