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Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

svenax said:
Very well, here is an old picture taken from a pdf of the history of Santa Croce in Gerusalemme, Roma. Since the nail is inside a reliquary, it is not that easy to find clear pictures. This was the best I could do without spending a lot of time searching.

[qimg]https://img.skitch.com/20120830-rkex3hxx98cxdaeutawc931786.png[/qimg]

The source is here: http://www.santacroceroma.it/pubblicazioni.php

So, does it look octogonal? No, definitely square.
Click to expand...


20120901.0430

@svenax, #162

Here are “stanzas” from the book “Awit at Salaysay ng Pasiong Mahal” first published in 1884 on page 204:

“Ikatlong pakong maganda
isinangkap kapagdaka
nang Emperatris Elena
sa marikit na deadema
ng bugtong na anak niya.”

“At yaong pakong maganda
nasasangkap sa deadema
ni Konstantino ng una
yaon din at hindi iba
ang nasa Templo ng Roma.”

English translation:
“The third beautiful nail
mixed immediately
by Emperatrix Helena
to the pretty diadem
of her only son.”

“And that beautiful nail
mixed in the diadem
of ancient Constantine
that also and not different from what
is in the Temple in Rome.”

The website you cited is linked to http://www.santacroceroma.it/parrocchia/risorse/files/libro_santa_croce_50_anni.pdf , page 32, on the 50th anniversary in 1960 of the Basilica of Santa Croce in Gerusalemme, Rome, Italy. Thank you, svenax.

The picture shows the nail in Rome to be four-sided only. I do not know which part of the nail which Saint Helena used for the diadem of her only son, the Roman Emperor Constantine. Why is the nail in Rome four-sided and the one in Milan roundish?
 
Warrior1461 said:
Nails venerated as those of Christ's Crucifixion

In the Basilica of Santa Croce in Gerusalemme in Rome.
In the Holy Lance of the German imperial regalia in the Hofburg Palace in Vienna.
In the Iron Crown of Lombardy in the Cathedral of Monza.
In the treasury of the Cathedral of Trier.
In the form of bridle, in the apse of the Cathedral of Milan (see Rito della Nivola)
In the form of bridle, in the cathedral treasuries of Carpentras.

In the cathedral of Colle di Val d'Elsa, near Siena

That is six nails, three more that is usually used.

This reminds me of what Mark Twain said when he toured Europe. So saw so many Churches that had wood from the cross that crucified Jesus to make 50 new crosses.
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20120901.0630

@Warrior1461, #121

You mentioned that the nails used when Jesus was crucified are in Rome, Vienna, Monza, Trier, Milan, Carpentras, and Siena. Yes, there are more than four. Why not in other places, such as Madrid, Venice, Athens, Cyprus, Pamphylia, Macedonia, Cilicia, Malta, Sicily, Crete, or Britannia?
 
PeaceCrusader said:
You mentioned that the nails used when Jesus was crucified are in Rome, Vienna, Monza, Trier, Milan, Carpentras, and Siena. Yes, there are more than four. Why not in other places, such as Madrid, Venice, Athens, Cyprus, Pamphylia, Macedonia, Cilicia, Malta, Sicily, Crete, or Britannia?
Click to expand...


Very little reliance can be placed upon the authenticity of the thirty or more holy nails which are still venerated, or which have been venerated until recent times, in such treasuries as that of Santa Croce in Rome, or those of Venice, Aachen, the Escurial, Nuremberg, Prague, etc.
Click to expand...

Catholic Encyclopedia
 
PeaceCrusader said:
20120901.0630

@Warrior1461, #121

You mentioned that the nails used when Jesus was crucified are in Rome, Vienna, Monza, Trier, Milan, Carpentras, and Siena. Yes, there are more than four. Why not in other places, such as Madrid, Venice, Athens, Cyprus, Pamphylia, Macedonia, Cilicia, Malta, Sicily, Crete, or Britannia?
Click to expand...

Why did you pick those other places and where is Britannia?
 
PeaceCrusader said:
...Did Jesus Christ ever exist? Is Jesus Christ a fictional character? ...
Click to expand...

It may be JC was a fictional character. Is that important?


PeaceCrusader said:
This is what is in the book “Awit at Salaysay ng Pasiong Mahal” first published in 1884 on page 204:

“At ito ring pakong mahal
ang sa dagat binitiwan
ang nasa Paris na bayan,
sa Templong lubhang mainam
ni San Dionisiong banal.”

English translation:
“And this is also the beloved nail
that was dropped into the sea
which is in the town of Paris,
in a Temple that is good
for the holy Saint Dionysius.”
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PC, I've told you repeatedly that devotional poem is mistaken on that point.
There was once a nail relic at st Denis, but it was brought to Paris by Charles the Bald. Did you read my link on the subject?
there was also a nail relic in the Sante Chapelle, but that particular nail was brought to Paris by St. Louis.
The " Pasiong " got it wrong, PC.
It's that simple.




PeaceCrusader said:
... I do not know which part of the nail which Saint Helena used for the diadem of her only son, the Roman Emperor Constantine. Why is the nail in Rome four-sided and the one in Milan roundish?
Click to expand...

Does it matter?
KA was wrong yet again. I wonder where she got the inspiration to say octagonal for the nails.
Is there a tradition in the Philippines of fashioning octagonal nails?
 
pakeha said:
It may be JC was a fictional character. Is that important?




PC, I've told you repeatedly that devotional poem is mistaken on that point.
There was once a nail relic at st Denis, but it was brought to Paris by Charles the Bald. Did you read my link on the subject?
there was also a nail relic in the Sante Chapelle, but that particular nail was brought to Paris by St. Louis.
The " Pasiong " got it wrong, PC.
It's that simple.






Does it matter?
KA was wrong yet again. I wonder where she got the inspiration to say octagonal for the nails.
Is there a tradition in the Philippines of fashioning octagonal nails?
Click to expand...

Probably has to do with the Hebrew word yom which can mean day or year or octagonal nails.
 
Nessie said:
Why did you pick those other places and where is Britannia?
Click to expand...
It is the Latin form of the name of the island of Britain. Later used in a poetic sense as in "Rule, Britannia!" I thought you might have known that.
 
Craig B said:
It is the Latin form of the name of the island of Britain. Later used in a poetic sense as in "Rule, Britannia!" I thought you might have known that.
Click to expand...


I thought that PC would know that it makes no sense to use that term now.
 
PeaceCrusader said:
From Wikipedia, Saint Denis (also called Dionysius, Dennis, or Denys) was the Bishop of Paris in the third century AD. He is the patron of Paris, France. The medieval and modern French name “Denis” derives from the ancient name Dionysius.

There is in Paris called the Saint Denis Basilica which became the burial place for the kings of France.
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Yes, however the relic is not there anymore. It is in Notre Dame du Paris though, so I spoke too soon about no nail existing in Paris. Sorry about that. To make amends, here is an image of the Notre Dame nail. Not easy to see what's inside the reliquary though.

http://www.notredamedeparis.fr/spip.php?page=document-big&id_document=1014&id_article=339

As an added bonus, here is the nail from Trier. It is also not "octobado".
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/germany/trier-cathedral-treasury-photos/slides/1348cp.jpg

Edited by LashL: 
Changed hotlink to regular link. Please see Rule 5.
 
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Great photos, svenax!
A shame they show that Ka Apax is a false medium.
A round of Dom for all!

ETA:
I am so impressed by your Google-fu, svenax.
When I tried Notre Dame and Nail all I came up with was
 
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PeaceCrusader said:
You mentioned that the nails used when Jesus was crucified are in Rome, Vienna, Monza, Trier, Milan, Carpentras, and Siena. Yes, there are more than four. Why not in other places, such as Madrid, Venice, Athens, Cyprus, Pamphylia, Macedonia, Cilicia, Malta, Sicily, Crete, or Britannia?
Click to expand...

Moving the goalposts again?
 
pakeha said:
I think I found the source of the "octobado" nail!
http://hellsing.wikia.com/wiki/Helena's_Nail
Check out the illustration. it looks "octobado" to me.
Another round of Dom for all!
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Awsome, pakeha! That looks just as likely as anything else. And your Google-fu seems excellent too, even if it was inadvertent, since that page also has a high resolution image of the Notre Dame nail in the image gallery section towards the bottom. More Dom to go around!
 
Since my Google-fu is at a high right now, here is the nail in the cathedral of Saint Siffrein in Carpentras.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Mors_(Carpentras) (click on the image for a larger version)

It looks even less like a nail than the one in Milan - which also claims to be the same nail as the one in Carpentras.
 
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Great find, svenax.

Although I find this one looking much more like a modern bit (bridle's metal mouthpiece) than a nail. Which nail was supposed to be the bridle, again?
 
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