Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

[PeaceCrusader]

Sorry, I thought it was KA who claimed the nails were octagonal. In any case, the “Pasiong Mahal” is simply a devotional poem. Why do you take it as a viable source of historical information?

PC, obviously one (or both) of these nails' claims must be utterly false.

Here are links to a photo taken as close as you or I will ever get to the nail in Milan:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rborja/2856916566/

20120830.1950

@pakeha, #137

Sorry, pakeha. Thank you for pointing out “octobado”. The spirit of Ama, not Ka Apaz, told us about the nails brought from Jerusalem by Saint Helen o Helena, Emperor Constantine’s mother, being “octobado”. The places Milan, Karpentas (I think Carpentras, France), Rome, and Paris are in “Pasiong Mahal” which I mentioned to Warrior1461.

Here, if you go to Milan about two week from now, on 2012-09-14, you will see the nail. Check if it has eight sides as what Ama said. Not four but eight sides.

Please check this website, http://www.ultimateitaly.com/italy-places/milan-duomo-cathedral.html about the Exaltation of the Cross on 09-14.

 

[Paul]

Why don't you just point to any eight-sided 1st century Roman nail, that would be a start.

 

[hurdygurdy]

Okay, the nail from Milan:

http://www.preguntasantoral.es/2012/04/reliquias-de-la-pasion-de-cristo/chiodo_milan/

Not "octobado". What'll be your excuse now?

 

[SezMe]

The effort would be useless. You are totally impervious to any response, you are here to repeat your delusions over and over and over. You said once that you came here to learn, but that's just another lie of yours.

Exactly true. This whole "evidence" thing is wasted effort.

 

[pakeha]

...The places Milan, Karpentas (I think Carpentras, France), Rome, and Paris are in “Pasiong Mahal” which I mentioned to Warrior1461.

Here, if you go to Milan about two week from now, on 2012-09-14, you will see the nail. Check if it has eight sides as what Ama said. Not four but eight sides.

Please check this website, http://www.ultimateitaly.com/italy-places/milan-duomo-cathedral.html about the Exaltation of the Cross on 09-14.

PC, you don't seem to understand quite yet.
Either or both the nails in Milan and Carpentras are false. This means the list in the “Pasiong Mahal” is mistaken.
Since it's merely an 18th century devotional, that's not a big deal.

The fact that KA ratifies this list simply reveals she's a false medium.

As for your suggestion of traveling to Milan (at your expense, I assume) I have a question.
How am I or anyone else supposed to see if the nail is octagonal, seeing as how it's been fashioned into a bridle?
Do you know what a bridle is?

Okay, the nail from Milan:

http://www.preguntasantoral.es/2012/04/reliquias-de-la-pasion-de-cristo/chiodo_milan/

Not "octobado". What'll be your excuse now?

Ace, hurdygurdy!
This, PC. Fashioned into a bridle.
A round of Dom for all.

 

[catsmate]

20120829.1020

@catsmate1, #60

How could you have more than a billion Christian people believe in Jesus? It must have been started somehow, sometime, somewhere? And it started some 2000 years ago. How about 3000 years ago, during the time of King Solomon, were there Christians already?

It may just be like Martin Luther (1483-1546). Was there what is called the Protestant Reformation before the 16th century AD?

Do you only believe what your eyes can see? Please broaden your minds. Is it logically correct? I ask you, can you see Rwanda? Does it exist? Be scrutinizing. Be discerning. Ask. “Asking question is the way to knowledge.” (“Ang pagtatanong ay daan ng pagdunong.”)

I take it from this gibberish you are unable to show any actual evidence that Jesus actually existed. The existence of xianity is not evidence for Jesus.
As for the rest of your "answer" it's noting but irrelevant rubbish.
Try again, with facts.

 

[poblob14]

We need bluesockmonkey in this thread. I want to see a cartoon of some raccoons nailing a squirrel. Wait, that came out wrong. Although . . . .

 

[Weak Kitten]

I accept that if there were nails they would have been iron rather than bronze but my question still stands; why would they have used something as valuable as nails on a reviled criminal? Why not just tie him to the cross and then poke him with spears if they felt the need for a little blood?

 

[MRC_Hans]

I accept that if there were nails they would have been iron rather than bronze but my question still stands; why would they have used something as valuable as nails on a reviled criminal? Why not just tie him to the cross and then poke him with spears if they felt the need for a little blood?

Well, that is a point. I think the historical evidence for the practice of crucifiction is pretty solid, but probably they would reuse the nails.

Hans

 

[TjW]

Actually, that's kinda what... I find strange about the whole relic business. People do expect that some nail, or some shroud, or the staff of some sait, or whatever, would get all sorts of magical powers. As if sentience to understand someone's prayer, and the intelligence to warp reality in just the right way to grant them, were something an inanimate object gets contaminated with by contact.

I think it's more of a threat -- "Hey, remember these? Painful, weren't they? Well, we still have them, and we don't mind using them again."

 

[TjW]

20120829.1130

@Foster Zygote, #67

Why symmetrical? Please read message 94 in my answer to the post of Pixel42.

You have to know the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees to understand what the Pharisees did to Jesus when they captured Him and crucified Him.

The Pocket Macquarie Dictionary defines a Pharisee as “one of an ancient Jewish sect which observed strictly the traditions and the written law, seeking its interpretation, its members attempting self-perfection for the coming of the Messiah.”

The Messiah had come in the person of Jesus Christ and yet the Jews refused to accept that even 2000 years have passed. They are still waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting.

Yes, and Christians believe that the same messiah will come again. Supposedly within the lifetime of his disciples. Here it is 2000 years later, and Christians are still waiting... and waiting... and waiting.

Somehow, that reminds me of something to do with sports.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I accept that if there were nails they would have been iron rather than bronze but my question still stands; why would they have used something as valuable as nails on a reviled criminal? Why not just tie him to the cross and then poke him with spears if they felt the need for a little blood?

I saw on a program about the subject (can't remember what it was) that one theory is that the arms were tied but a single very large nail was driven through both feet/ankles. I think there has been a crucified skeleton from approximately the right period discovered that has allowed historians to verify where the nail went.

 

[svenax]

I saw on a program about the subject (can't remember what it was) that one theory is that the arms were tied but a single very large nail was driven through both feet/ankles. I think there has been a crucified skeleton from approximately the right period discovered that has allowed historians to verify where the nail went.

No no, it has to be two nails - one through each foot - otherwise it wouldn't be symmetrical.

 

[tsig]

I've got one of the crucifiction nails in my tool box - I can sell you it if the price is right

I've got the hammer that was used to drive the nails. It's priceless.

 

[tsig]

20120830.1920

@Warrior1461, #121

There are four nails used in the crucifixion of Jesus. Not six. Not even three. They are in Carpentras, France; Milan, Italy; Rome, Italy; and Paris, France. (Pasiong Mahal, pages 203-204)

In Carpentras, the nail is paraded on Feast Day as “Clavo Santo”. In Milan, the nail is located in a church (or cathedral). In Rome, St. Helen put the nail in a diadem of her son, Emperor Constantine. It is located in a temple in Rome. And the nail that ended in Paris was thrown into Adriatic Sea which floated inspite of it being made of metal. In Paris, it maybe in the Basilica of Saint Denis, the Patron Saint of France. Saint Denis is also called Dionysius, Dennis, or Denys.

Please check the nails in Carpentras, Milan, and Rome. They should be eight-sided. Not four sides but eight sides.

Is there still blood on them? If so we can type it an compare it with the blood on the shroud of Turin.

 

[tsig]

Tape-recorded you say? I'm not convinced. Needs to be on YouTube to make me believe.

YT = seeing is deceiving.

 

[I Ratant]

We need bluesockmonkey in this thread. I want to see a cartoon of some raccoons nailing a squirrel. Wait, that came out wrong. Although . . . .

.
I got a photo of a raccoon that was nailed by a Plymouth.
Kinda gruesome.

 

[Craig B]

Is there still blood on them? If so we can type it an compare it with the blood on the shroud of Turin.

We could also examine a Christian who had drunk some of the consecrated Communion wine during Mass. Give it time to transubstantiate into the Holy Blood, then pump his stomach and get a sample. That would be another check on the authenticity of the blood.

ETA And on the authenticity of Transubstantiation too, for that matter.

 

[Weak Kitten]

No, that would be ignoring later interpretations which hold that it merely has the "substance" of the blood and body. It doesn't really change chemical composition, even the Catholic church doesn't claim that.

But if what Denyer is saying is true than there would only be one nail and it would be less a nail and more a large metal spike. Do any of the claimed nails even come close to that description?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

PC, you don't seem to understand quite yet.
Either or both the nails in Milan and Carpentras are false. This means the list in the “Pasiong Mahal” is mistaken.
Since it's merely an 18th century devotional, that's not a big deal.

The fact that KA ratifies this list simply reveals she's a false medium.

As for your suggestion of traveling to Milan (at your expense, I assume) I have a question.
How am I or anyone else supposed to see if the nail is octagonal, seeing as how it's been fashioned into a bridle?
Do you know what a bridle is?


Ace, hurdygurdy!
This, PC. Fashioned into a bridle.
A round of Dom for all.

20120831.0545

@pakeha, #145

I know what a bridle is. But to be cleared about it, I checked the World Book Dictionary which defines it as: “the part of a harness that fits over a horse’s head. Used to hold him back or control him. A bridle usually consists of a headstall, bit, and reins.” I can’t imagine though how the picture sent (http://www.preguntasantoral.es/2012/.../chiodo_milan/ ) by hurdygurdy fits into a horse’s head. And it looks round already, not eight-sided.

Sorry but I cannot assume the expenses of going to Milan, Italy. That is why we have the Internet.

If that nail in Milan is similar to the one fashioned by Saint Helen for her son Emperor Constantine, then let us see how the one in Rome looks like, and compare.