Are the crucifixion nails of Jesus in Europe?

[devnull]

The Roman soldiers upon the request of the Pharisees made the crucifixion of Jesus symmetrical. Please read my answer to Pixel42 on message 94.

Do you have any evidence for this?

Why symmetrical? Why would the Pharisees ask for such a thing? Why would 2 nails hurt more than 1?

Enquiring minds want to know!

 

[PeaceCrusader]

That has to be some of the most profoundly flawed reasoning I've encountered in years. And that's saying a lot as a reader of these fora. Why would the Romans who nailed jesus up care the slightest for whether they were arranged symmetrically?

20120829.1130

@Foster Zygote, #67

Why symmetrical? Please read message 94 in my answer to the post of Pixel42.

You have to know the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees to understand what the Pharisees did to Jesus when they captured Him and crucified Him.

The Pocket Macquarie Dictionary defines a Pharisee as “one of an ancient Jewish sect which observed strictly the traditions and the written law, seeking its interpretation, its members attempting self-perfection for the coming of the Messiah.”

The Messiah had come in the person of Jesus Christ and yet the Jews refused to accept that even 2000 years have passed. They are still waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting.

 

[devnull]

PC, message #94 doesnt answer the question.

You basically say that the Pharisees hated Jesus, and asked for his crucifixion to be symmetrical.

That doesnt answer the question of why they would want it symmetrical. What is the significance? It also doesnt answer how you know that it was symmetrical.

BTW, theyre waiting for the messiah, and christians are waiting for the messiah *again*. Both groups are wrong, of course.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Has anyone contacted a certain Professor Henry "Indiana" Jones about the location of these nails?

 

[The Norseman]

He must have had a Gatling gun type penis.

Ah yes, the things they didn't put into the Bible as we know it...

 

[Robrob]

I know I am wasting my time but please feel free to explain how you "logically" arrived at 4 when you yourself state the first two only used 3?

Argument from symmetry? Thief on right: right over left. Thief on left: left over right. Jesus thus had to have his feet positioned side by side or he would have thrown off the symmetry of the arrangement. It wasn't a crucifixion, it was a choreography! Jesus was killed by Bob Fosse!

20120827.1910

@Robrob, #50
@Foster Zygote, #52

You are correct, Foster Zygote. Thank you. To make it symmetrical, Jesus was nailed with four nails. He was in the center of two thieves but He was not a thief or their leader.

Proof you are not making a rational argument. Why would the ROMANS decide to nail Jesus "differently" than every other criminal executed that day?

The arguments that I use are plausible. Otherwise, I would doubt it, even it came from Ama. Do not take everything ‘hook, line, and sinker’. Be scrutinizing. Be discerning. Ask. “Asking questions is the way to knowledge.” ("Ang pagtatanong ay daan ng pagdunong.")

No, they are not. Every prophecy of your gypsy fortuneteller has proven false. Starting with your claim WWIII was going to interrupt the Olympics. Yet you still insist on following your "prophet?!"

Did you know that the Pharisees hate Jesus so much? Jesus called them vipers, Gentiles, hypocrites. So they exacted revenge when they captured and crucified Him. So in the crucifixion, Jesus was in the center, they made it symmetrical. Also, I think, they pierced Jesus with a nail to each of His feet to make it more painful.

Since the ROMANS crucified him, your point?

Do you know where they crucified Jesus? It is not in the supposed crucifixion site in the north but near the “Dung Gate” in the south is, in the rubbish tip of the city, near where the Jewish cemetery is. They crossed the Kidron Valley. And it did not take them a few hours to get there. It took them three days to walk the route which is only about three kilometers long.

I'll probably regret this but why?

How could you have more than a billion Christian people believe in Jesus? It must have been started somehow, sometime, somewhere? And it started some 2000 years ago. How about 3000 years ago, during the time of King Solomon, were there Christians already?

Using your own numbers and argument to popularity, there are many billions more who do not believe in Jesus. Therefore he doesn't exist.

BTW, no there were no "Christians" 3,000 years ago. Your point?

 

[PeaceCrusader]

PC, message #94 doesnt answer the question.

You basically say that the Pharisees hated Jesus, and asked for his crucifixion to be symmetrical.

That doesnt answer the question of why they would want it symmetrical. What is the significance? It also doesnt answer how you know that it was symmetrical.

BTW, theyre waiting for the messiah, and christians are waiting for the messiah *again*. Both groups are wrong, of course.

20120829.1430

@devnull, #103

The Holy Bible says that Jesus was crucified with two thieves on each side.
Please see Matthew 27:44; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:39-43. John 19:18, stated, to wit: “Where they crucified him, and two others with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.”

From “Pasiong Mahal”, second to last paragraph:
“At kaya ipinagitna
Nila ang Poong dakila
Sa dalawang makuhila,
Yaon daw pagpalibhasa,
At lubos nilang pagkutya.”

English translation:
“And why they centered the great God between two thieves, they say that that is an insult, and their complete ridicule or mockery [of Jesus].”

Ama said that to the right of Jesus was Dimas. His right foot was over his left foot and one nail was driven through them. Hestas was to the left of Jesus. His left foot was over his right foot and one nail was driven through them. Jesus was in the center. One nail each was driven to each foot of Jesus. So, 1-2-1 nails on the feet of the crucified people, or 3-4-3 nails for their hands and feet.

The Jews are still waiting for the coming of the promised Messiah. Jesus came as that promised Messiah. They did not accept Him. Instead, they even crucified and killed Him.

The Christians are waiting for the return of Jesus called the “Second coming of Jesus”. FYI, when Jesus comes back, it will be Judgment Day. All of us will receive our sentence, whether we go to Heaven or to Hell.

 

[devnull]

so.... the evidence you use to show that there were 4 nails comes from the same source that says there were 4 nails? That doesnt sound logical.

You still havent shown why the symmetry was necessary, or that it led to "ridicule and mockery". I would think that the "ridicule and mockery" would refer to Jesus being between 2 thieves (ie, tarring him with the same brush).

The jews didnt crucify Jesus. The romans did.

The Christians have been waiting for 2000 years for the second coming of christ. The jews have been waiting longer for their messiah. Both groups are foolish. Perhaps the christians moreso, as they were promised the return of Jesus within the lifetime of his followers ("Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.")

Neither group has woken up to the reality yet.

 

[Astreja]

The Holy Bible says that Jesus was crucified with two thieves on each side.

The Bible also mentions Talking Snakes™. Please Fed-Ex one to Me at your earliest convenience.

The Jews are still waiting for the coming of the promised Messiah. Jesus came as that promised Messiah. They did not accept Him. Instead, they even crucified and killed Him.

How could the Jewish people have had the authority to crucify anyone, when they were under Roman occupation?

As for the Messiah -- Even if he did exist, Jesus wouldn't have met the job requirements for the position. He didn't liberate Israel from the Romans and never sat on the throne. That's why the Jews are still waiting.

The Christians are waiting for the return of Jesus called the “Second coming of Jesus”. FYI, when Jesus comes back, it will be Judgment Day. All of us will receive our sentence, whether we go to Heaven or to Hell.

According to the Gospels, Jesus was supposed to return while some of his disciples were still alive.

I think they're all dead now, and that Jesus just isn't coming.

 

[ddt]

It may just be like Martin Luther (1483-1546). Was there what is called the Protestant Reformation before the 16th century AD?

Yes, there was. You forget Jan Hus:

After John Wycliffe, the theorist of ecclesiastical Reformation, Hus is considered the first Church reformer (living prior to Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli).
[...]
Between 1420 and 1431, the Hussite forces defeated five consecutive papal crusades against followers of Hus. Their defence and rebellion against Roman Catholics became known as the Hussite Wars.[2] A century later, as many as 90% of inhabitants of the Czech lands were non-Catholic and followed the teachings of Hus and his successors.[3]

It's quite arbitrary to say that the Reformation started with Luther and to call Hus just a "predecessor". Hus' reformation was highly successful in the Czech lands and it would last until the Counterreformation in the mid 17th Century that the Czech lands were re-catholicized.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I wonder, has it ever occurred to PC that they were just crucified on different crosses?
The romans were practical after all and this method screams stupidity and failure to understand basic mechanics.

But of course this is all hypothetical.
of COURSE the nails are in Europe, and we intend to keep them there so that we can fight off the chinese armies again.
You know, just like we did a few weeks ago.

 

[pakeha]

Be discerning. Ask. “Asking questions is the way to knowledge.” ("Ang pagtatanong ay daan ng pagdunong.")

..
Do you still believe that Ka Apaz was faking the spirit of Ama? Please read my post to Astreja in “Will the 2012 Olympic Games in London be held?” after message 3910.

Of course she was faking.
I've read your reply.
Have you read mine?
Do you still not understand KA's information about the 4 nails is demonstrably false?

Here's what KA told you:

According to “Awit at Salaysay ng Pasiong Mahal”, the nails ended up at Carpentras, France; Milan, Italy; Rome, Italy; and Paris, France. Carpentras may be the correct name of the place instead of Karpentas in the “Pasion”. Since there are forumers who may be living there in Europe, they may go where the supposed nails are and report here the results of their mission.

OK.
The nails in Carpentras and Milan claim to be the same nail.
They both claim to be the nail let into into Constantine's bridle.
Those two nails on KA's list both claim to be the same thing.

That leaves two on the list:
One in Rome.

...During the renovations ordered by Cardinal Mendoza in 1492, a niche was allegedly discovered in the conch of the apse which was blocked by a brick having Titulus Crucis stamped on it. Behind this was a lead box containing the inscription placed on the box by Pilate, one of the nails and a large splinter of the True Cross. ...

http://romanchurches.wikia.com/wiki/Santa_Croce_in_Gerusalemme#The_Chapel_of_the_Passion_Relics

There is nothing to say this nail was one of the ones discovered by the Emperor Constantine's mother.



One in Paris.
The is no nail in Paris. The 18th century devotional KA used as an information source is wrong. The composer of that devotional epic confused an old legend, as I explained earlier.

Nails venerated as those of Christ's Crucifixion

In the Basilica of Santa Croce in Gerusalemme in Rome.
In the Holy Lance of the German imperial regalia in the Hofburg Palace in Vienna.
In the Iron Crown of Lombardy in the Cathedral of Monza.
In the treasury of the Cathedral of Trier.
In the form of bridle, in the apse of the Cathedral of Milan (see Rito della Nivola)
In the form of bridle, in the cathedral treasuries of Carpentras.

In the cathedral of Colle di Val d'Elsa, near Siena

Notice there are none in Paris. I've already shown you how the mistake in information could have occurred.
Notice the ones in Carpentras and Milan claim to be the same thing.


KA in one of her performances confirmed the information taken from the “Awit at Salaysay ng Pasiong Mahal”.

That information is false, as you can see for yourself.
What other conclusion is there except KA is a fraud?

She gives false information.
She gives false prophecies.

What more do you need?

 

[pakeha]

...You have to know the conflict between Jesus and the Pharisees to understand what the Pharisees did to Jesus when they captured Him and crucified Him. ...

The Jews are still waiting for the coming of the promised Messiah. Jesus came as that promised Messiah. They did not accept Him. Instead, they even crucified and killed Him.

PC. You are aware the Romans crucified Jesus, not the Pharisees?

...
Ama said that to the right of Jesus was Dimas. His right foot was over his left foot and one nail was driven through them. Hestas was to the left of Jesus. His left foot was over his right foot and one nail was driven through them. Jesus was in the center. One nail each was driven to each foot of Jesus. So, 1-2-1 nails on the feet of the crucified people, or 3-4-3 nails for their hands and feet. ...

PC, you realise KA simply repeated what that 18th century devotional says?

...Do you know where they crucified Jesus? It is not in the supposed crucifixion site in the north but near the “Dung Gate” in the south is, in the rubbish tip of the city, near where the Jewish cemetery is. They crossed the Kidron Valley. And it did not take them a few hours to get there. It took them three days to walk the route which is only about three kilometers long.

Are you saying Jesus was arrested, tried and then executed three days later?

...It may just be like Martin Luther (1483-1546). Was there what is called the Protestant Reformation before the 16th century AD? ...

Indeed, there was, as ddt has pointed out.

 

[Mojo]

Yeah that's what I thought. With all those supposed nails in exsistence somebody must of gone to town on Jesus.

Acupuncture.

To death? Ouch!

 

[tsig]

I wonder, has it ever occurred to PC that they were just crucified on different crosses?
The romans were practical after all and this method screams stupidity and failure to understand basic mechanics.

But of course this is all hypothetical.
of COURSE the nails are in Europe, and we intend to keep them there so that we can fight off the chinese armies again.
You know, just like we did a few weeks ago.

So that's why the world didn't end. It's well known that god can't conquer iron.

 

[Ladewig]

PC, I can clearly state what evidence I would need to see before I believed your mystic friend is speaking God's Word.

Can you clearly state what it would take for you to give up your belief.

If not, then you are too closed minded to deal with in any way.

 

[jsfisher]

...I think, they pierced Jesus with a nail to each of His feet to make it more painful....

Is it really just stream-of-consciousness posting with you? Do you even think about what you type? You couldn't possibly believe the nonsense you offer; it is just mindless drivel.

One nail or two -- same number of holes in feet. Same pain level.

 

[Tricky]

So Jesus goes into an inn and tosses three four nails on the counter and asks the innkeeper, "Can you put me up for the night?"

 

[SezMe]

And the Innkeeper replies, "Hang on a minute while I check."

 

[Warrior1461]

"As for the Messiah -- Even if he did exist, Jesus wouldn't have met the job requirements for the position. He didn't liberate Israel from the Romans and never sat on the throne. That's why the Jews are still waiting."

The early church founders knew that, that is why the second coming thing was cooked up, because they are saving that for the SEQUEL. Jesus II, Judgement Day.