Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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I vote for Jay. Everything he's said in this thread is consistent with my own expertise in the area of computer science. All Robert has, on the other hand, are cherry-picked statements taken out of context.
 
SecurityExpert Weighs in on COLB Forgery

Security Expert, CIA Agents Weigh In on COLB Forgery


Congress, Courts Corrupted -- Fears of 'Black Backlash'

"Retired Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely, the chief of Stand Up America, a national security expert and Fox News contributor, says the “Certificate of Live Birth” released in April by the White House as “proof positive” of President Obama’s Hawaiian birth is a forgery, but the FBI is covering the fraud and no one in Congress is willing to tackle the situation because of fears of a “black backlash” if the failings of the nation’s first black president are revealed..."

"I’ve had retired CIA agents and other investigators go over the birth certificate that was produced and by far, 10 out of 10 have said it’s a forgery. "

“No members of Congress will take this on. The word I get out of Washington is that they don’t want to challenge this because it would be in fact a felony offense and in some cases may be even treasonous and [they are] afraid of a black backlash from some of the urban areas,” Vallely said...."

"I think the corruption within this administration is so proliferated through the agencies of government now, we’re just in a bad situation here. I think the lack of confidence in our government is growing and many feel that not only all the members of Congress but even our courts are corrupted at this time,” he said."

http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/311433/


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Paul E. Vallely is a retired US Army Major General and senior military analyst for Fox News. He served in the Vietnam War and retired in 1993 as Deputy Commanding General, Pacific Command. In 2004, together with retired Air Force Lieutenant General Thomas McInerney, Vallely co-authored the book Endgame: The Blueprint for Victory in the War on Terror. Vallely currently serves as the Military Committee Chairman for the Center for Security Policy and has lent his support to the organization Veteran Defenders of America.
 
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Robert Prey said:
Security Expert, CIA Agents Weigh In on COLB Forgery


Congress, Courts Corrupted -- Fears of 'Black Backlash'

"Retired Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely, the chief of Stand Up America, a national security expert and Fox News contributor, says the “Certificate of Live Birth” released in April by the White House as “proof positive” of President Obama’s Hawaiian birth is a forgery, but the FBI is covering the fraud and no one in Congress is willing to tackle the situation because of fears of a “black backlash” if the failings of the nation’s first black president are revealed..."

"I’ve had retired CIA agents and other investigators go over the birth certificate that was produced and by far, 10 out of 10 have said it’s a forgery. "

“No members of Congress will take this on. The word I get out of Washington is that they don’t want to challenge this because it would be in fact a felony offense and in some cases may be even treasonous and [they are] afraid of a black backlash from some of the urban areas,” Vallely said...."

"I think the corruption within this administration is so proliferated through the agencies of government now, we’re just in a bad situation here. I think the lack of confidence in our government is growing and many feel that not only all the members of Congress but even our courts are corrupted at this time,” he said."

http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/311433/


* * *

Paul E. Vallely is a retired US Army Major General and senior military analyst for Fox News. He served in the Vietnam War and retired in 1993 as Deputy Commanding General, Pacific Command. In 2004, together with retired Air Force Lieutenant General Thomas McInerney, Vallely co-authored the book Endgame: The Blueprint for Victory in the War on Terror. Vallely currently serves as the Military Committee Chairman for the Center for Security Policy and has lent his support to the organization Veteran Defenders of America.
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I got as far as Fox News contributor.
 
What We Got Here is Failure to Communicate

Jay's Obfuscations Explained.

Object Groups versus Layers. The problem is, they are one and the same. Click the expand arrow of the lst layer and you get multiple layers or "groups."
Same difference, but hardly of the kind that could be produced automatically.

And Jay knows this very well but chooses to play word games in place of real analysis.
 
Robert Prey said:
Security Expert, CIA Agents Weigh In on COLB Forgery


Congress, Courts Corrupted -- Fears of 'Black Backlash'

"Retired Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely, the chief of Stand Up America, a national security expert and Fox News contributor, says the “Certificate of Live Birth” released in April by the White House as “proof positive” of President Obama’s Hawaiian birth is a forgery, but the FBI is covering the fraud and no one in Congress is willing to tackle the situation because of fears of a “black backlash” if the failings of the nation’s first black president are revealed..."

"I’ve had retired CIA agents and other investigators go over the birth certificate that was produced and by far, 10 out of 10 have said it’s a forgery. "

“No members of Congress will take this on. The word I get out of Washington is that they don’t want to challenge this because it would be in fact a felony offense and in some cases may be even treasonous and [they are] afraid of a black backlash from some of the urban areas,” Vallely said...."

"I think the corruption within this administration is so proliferated through the agencies of government now, we’re just in a bad situation here. I think the lack of confidence in our government is growing and many feel that not only all the members of Congress but even our courts are corrupted at this time,” he said."

http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/311433/


* * *

Paul E. Vallely is a retired US Army Major General and senior military analyst for Fox News. He served in the Vietnam War and retired in 1993 as Deputy Commanding General, Pacific Command. In 2004, together with retired Air Force Lieutenant General Thomas McInerney, Vallely co-authored the book Endgame: The Blueprint for Victory in the War on Terror. Vallely currently serves as the Military Committee Chairman for the Center for Security Policy and has lent his support to the organization Veteran Defenders of America.
Click to expand...

Stars on his shoulders and rocks in his head, it's a common problem.
 
Robert Prey said:
Object Groups versus Layers. The problem is, they are one and the same. Click the expand arrow of the lst layer and you get multiple layers or "groups."
Same difference, but hardly of the kind that could be produced automatically.
Click to expand...

Nope. Exactly like the kind that are produced automatically.

layers.jpg


As Nathan Goulding proved.
 
Robert Prey said:
Jay's Obfuscations Explained.

Object Groups versus Layers. The problem is, they are one and the same. Click the expand arrow of the lst layer and you get multiple layers or "groups."
Same difference, but hardly of the kind that could be produced automatically.

And Jay knows this very well but chooses to play word games in place of real analysis.
Click to expand...

Yes it can, and I posted a video in this thread how it can and does happen. I even managed to do the same on my own birth certificate.

Even your wonderful expert, Ivan Zatkovich's report seems to boil down to two things.

"The only two plausible explanations for this pattern of layers is:
1. Someone was changing the content of both the text and the stamps.
2. Someone was systematically enhancing the black text layers for legibility, and then enhancing
the stamp overlays separately for legibility."

Even in his summary, he states:

"All of the modifications to the PDF document that can be identified are consistent with someone enhancing the legibility of the document. It is possible that in addition to enhancing the legibility of the document that the content of the document was also changed. There is no specific evidence of how or why that content would have been changed, but the evidence clearly indicates that the document was changed ."
 
JayUtah said:
The part where you think that what he understands by this statement in any way contradicts his agreement that the PDF depicts the information the State of Hawaii released, and that they have so certified.

Further, I have challenged his opinion on the basis of the inapplicability of his stated expertise.
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I think it would be good to discuss the "experts" on the other side. There have been several on the side of authenticity mentioned on this board, but really only two whose statements could be examined, dissected and verified. That could be Nathan Goulding and Jean-Claude Tremblay.

Nathan Goulding was the original darling of the anti-Birthers, who wrote a short article for National Review attempting to explain the existence of multiple layers via innocent processes which included the long discredted OCR and later Optimization. The difficulty is, he made no actual replications of his mixed up theories, but based his opinion on suppositions. Moreover, applying the Jay Utah theory of credential screening, Mr. Goulding merely claims to be an expert swing dancer, with absolutely no computer training. So much for that "expert" witness.

The other darling of the anti-Birthers on this board is Jean-Claude Tremblay, who it was claimed gave an interview to Fox News reporter with a story headlined:
Expert: No Doubt Obama's Birth Certificate Is Legit

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/29/expert-says-obamas-birth-certificate-legit/

Trouble is, this oft repeated story was untrue as Fox News reporter Jane Winter totally mis-quoted Tremblay:

“I never said that,” Tremblay insists. “Winter called me and talked to me for about five minutes on the telephone, and she never said she was going to quote me. Then she misrepresented what I said.”

"...“For me, what I have seen does not prove that it is legit, nor that it is a fake,

“I have no idea why the White House would provide a scan of a document that had been run through OCR software,” he said, “and I’m not an expert on the image modification or typography arguments other experts have made.”

Specifically regarding Vogt and Irey, Tremblay said, “I have no explanation why some of the text in the document may have been changed and why other parts of the text may not have been changed.”

“I’m not a detective specializing in the forgery of electronic documents,” he wrote on his professional website. “I am an instructor in graphic design software working to help people work faster, better and smarter.”

http://www.wnd.com/2011/06/314041/


So much for the only two "experts" alluded to on this board -- except for Jay Utah, who has appointed himself.
 
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Speaking of campaigns, who, Mr. Prey, will you be voting for? I'm not 100% certain yet, but I'm leaning towards casting my vote to re-elect Barack Obama President of the United States of America!
 
Robert Prey said:
I think it would be good to discuss the "experts" on the other side. There have been several on the side of authenticity mentioned on this board...
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Yeah...like the state of Hawaii.

Why do you keep ignoring that fact? ...or is it that you realize your argument goes up in flames unless the officials of the state of hawaii are a bunch of liars.

Present your evidence that officials of the state of hawaii are LYING, or withdraw your claim(s) regarding Obama's birth certificate....and do one or the other now.
 
The word I get out of Washington is that they don’t want to challenge this because it would be in fact a felony offense and in some cases may be even treasonous...
Click to expand...
Right, because the 50% of Washington politicians on the other side of the aisle from Obama wouldn't give their left testicle to boot him out of office?

Why do CT always sound so ridiculous in the light of day?
 
Robert Prey said:

“No members of Congress will take this on. The word I get out of Washington is that they don’t want to challenge this because it would be in fact a felony offense and in some cases may be even treasonous and [they are] afraid of a black backlash from some of the urban areas,” Vallely said...."
Click to expand...


-snicker-

A foreigner has taken control of the executive branch of the government and the entire Republican Party is afraid to stand up for America.

You must think very little of the Republicans to support this view.


Putting it in context, Clinton lied about his pee pee under oath and the Republicans fell all over themselves trying to get the title of "Congressman who hates Clinton the most." They insisted that he be removed from office. A foreign agent assumes the presidency and they are afraid to even mention it. Yeah, that is exactly how the Republican Party rolls ... in bizarro world.


They are willing to call him a socialist, a communist, the greatest threat to the American way of life, an atheist, a closet Muslim, and a tool of the devil but saying the word foreigner is way over the line.
 
Given how much conspiracy theory is necessary to even approach this topic, might it be more efficient to just combine birtherism with some other theories? Obama ordered that Kennedy be killed. Obama planned the whole Apollo hoax. Obama is responsible for putting fluoride in the water.

Are any of these sillier than pure birtherism?
 
Robert Prey said:
For one thing, we'd like to see where else The Anointed One wrote that he was born in Kenya.
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I'm still not clear on who this "Anointed One" is but assuming you are referring to Barack Obama that way for unknown reasons I would like to ask where he ever wrote that he was born in Kenya?
 
Why is Lord Luncheonmeat still discussing photoshop layers? There is no relevance discussing programme that was not used to create the PDF and offers no viable analysis of the data. Shove any PDF or anything but a vanilla image file in and it will convert objects into whatever format it uses. So what? Who cares?
 
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