Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[JayUtah]

But then again, I'm agreeing more strongly with the idea that he's simply trolling.

I can agree with that too, especially since his tactics have followed exactly the same pattern here as they did in his previous thread. He has become ever so predictable. He offers an argument based on expert testimony, then tries to dismiss the failure of his "experts" to be experts as "ad hominem attacks." He relies solely on his own interpretation of complex, specialized topics and refuses to acknowledge his lay limitations therein. He flagrantly ignores substantial posts with his single-word responses, then fixates on one or two of his critics to the exclusion of all else. Then when everyone begins to point out to him how badly he's failed to make his point, he tries to sweep it all aside and shift the burden of proof.

It's as if the specific details of one conspiracy theory were removed and replaced wholesale with the specific details of another conspiracy theory. You could literally search-and-replace certain key words in Robert's posts on this topic and have his previous arguments on other topics. This leaves us wondering whether the goal is to argue a proposition or simply to exercise the pattern.

 

[KDLarsen]

So, Orly Taitz went judge-shopping with a dismissed case, this time somehow landing herself in Texas of all places. Not that you could tell by the complaint she filed: http://www.scribd.com/doc/103904313/NDTX-Tvs-2012-08-23-Complaint

Oh, and I wish her all the best with her chosen Bush Sr.-appointed judge:

After each trial, Judge Solis asks the jury to comment on their experience. The number one complaint he receives from juries is redundancy. The number two complaint is that lawyers are not professional, which is a pet peeve of his. While lawyers must be zealous advocates of the client’s case, a good advocate should not resort to gamesmanship and unprofessional conduct directed at the opposing lawyers.

http://www2.dallasbar.org/judiciary/profiles.asp?item=108

 

[Chaos]

Probably not; committed conspiracy loons are rarely deterred by their own incompetence and irrelevance.

Why should they be? After all, their not achieving anything only proves that THEY are suppressing The Truth.

 

[jhunter1163]

So, Orly Taitz went judge-shopping with a dismissed case, this time somehow landing herself in Texas of all places. Not that you could tell by the complaint she filed: http://www.scribd.com/doc/103904313/NDTX-Tvs-2012-08-23-Complaint

Oh, and I wish her all the best with her chosen Bush Sr.-appointed judge:
http://www2.dallasbar.org/judiciary/profiles.asp?item=108

Now I've got a big question mark over my head. Why sue the California secretary of state in Texas court? What jurisdiction could Texas possibly have? I suspect that we'll find that the answer is "none" in yet another very terse dismissal from Judge Solis.

 

[jhunter1163]

I just read the filing. The crazy in there reaches scary levels.

 

[KDLarsen]

Now I've got a big question mark over my head. Why sue the California secretary of state in Texas court? What jurisdiction could Texas possibly have? I suspect that we'll find that the answer is "none" in yet another very terse dismissal from Judge Solis.

Long story short, she apparently googled one of the defendants, William A. Chatfield, found that someone sharing his name was living in Texas, and apparently decided that she stood a better chance in Texas than in wishy-washy liberal California

Oh, and if you're not familiar with OrlyLaw, pay attention to John/Jane Doe 1-10. Those aren't persons whose actions are part of the lawsuit, but whose name(s) are unknown at the time of the lawsuit. They are actually placeholders in case anyone crosses swords with her and she decides they too are part of the lawsuit

 

[jhunter1163]

Oh, and if you're not familiar with OrlyLaw, pay attention to John/Jane Doe 1-10. Those aren't persons whose actions are part of the lawsuit, but whose name(s) are unknown at the time of the lawsuit. They are actually placeholders in case anyone crosses swords with her and she decides they too are part of the lawsuit

I knew that part. They don't have to even cross swords with her; they just have to piss her off.

If you haven't read the filing, I recommend it heartily for several good chuckles, some eye-rolls and about three dozen "WTF?"s.

 

[Hans]

Not to take anything away from Hans, but I think anyone here that knows Robert's "M.O.", would have predicted the same.

I am kind of surprised that Robert "took the troll bait".

Ah but my prediction was based only on noting Robert's actions in the last twenty or so pages.....but I've been following 'fringe' thought for 40+ years and he follows a very standard fringe technique, the road to failure I call it.

Bottom line

He's acting like a troll

Kudos to Jay, Ant and others who demolished his premise so expertly

 

[Agatha]

I knew that part. They don't have to even cross swords with her; they just have to piss her off.

If you haven't read the filing, I recommend it heartily for several good chuckles, some eye-rolls and about three dozen "WTF?"s.

Indeed, I loved paragraph 44 where Taitz complains:

44. Obama committed fraud when, in and around January 25th 2012, through his attorney Michael Jablonski, sent a defamatory letter to the Secretary of State of Georgia where he attacked plaintiff Taitz, who was an attorney in Farrar v Obama, claiming that he has produced a birth certificate and that he suffers from Taitz.

Appalling grammar aside, I love the implication that Taitz is a complaint that people can suffer from, like influenza.

 

[jhunter1163]

I loved the part where all the Jews and Christians in America were going to be forced to convert to Islam in order to take advantage of the free healthcare.

You think I'm kidding. I'm not. It's in item 13.

 

[tsig]

I just read the filing. The crazy in there reaches scary levels.

The rant against Muslims seems new.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Orly's logic is just sad, and she does put John and Jane Does because in her sick mind everyone who disagrees with her (including Judges that rule against her) get added into her RICO conspiracies. Heck, some of us might be part of that shadow conspiracy.

 

[Arisia]

Orly's logic is just sad, and she does put John and Jane Does because in her sick mind everyone who disagrees with her (including Judges that rule against her) get added into her RICO conspiracies. Heck, some of us might be part of that shadow conspiracy.

Keep it down, some of us are trying to stay below her radar!

- Jane Doe 27

 

[sts60]

...If you haven't read the filing, I recommend it heartily for several good chuckles, some eye-rolls and about three dozen "WTF?"s.

I don't think many court filings result in the plaintiff being immediately committed to a mental hospital, but this one seems like a strong candidate.

Appalling grammar aside, I love the implication that Taitz is a complaint that people can suffer from, like influenza.

It's OK, I understand there's a cream for that.

 

[Ladewig]

[Ladewig raises hand] Oooh, oooh, pick me.

Yes and yes.

And even if I didn't, I would still say that the birthers have not even enough proof to get a Grand Jury indictment (preponderance of evidence). Furthermore, I am not convinced that the birthers have enough evidence to meet the legal standard for a reasonable-suspicion search. I think Terry v Ohio defined that standard as being based on "specific and articulable facts" and not merely upon an LEO's hunch.

Dude, you can't even get people who vehemently hate the president's guts to publicly claim that there is enough evidence to launch an investigation. And keep in mind that when we talk about Congress not wanting to investigate, we are talking about an institution that was willing to give a special investigator unlimited subpoena power and enough funds to investigate for several years based on Whitewater allegations.

Nothing that has been presented has reached a standard that would allow it to be called evidence. It is hearsay, innuendo, baseless claims, and wild accusation.

 

[Ladewig]

If I may rephrase my previous advice

If you have taken one particular side on a controversial issue in a national debate and the three most prominent people you can find to champion your cause are "Shurf Joe", Donald Trump, and Alex Jones, then you might be completely and absolutely right; but before you publicly assert your position it might be wise to reevaluate the evidence and reasoning that led you to that position.​

 

[KDLarsen]

The rant against Muslims seems new.

She has issues with Muslims, this is just an opportunity to show it in public. A shame really, since 2 minutes with a search engine would tell her that the "Muslims are excempt from ACA!!!!11"-thing is a long-debunked hoax.

 

[A'isha]

She has issues with Muslims, this is just an opportunity to show it in public. A shame really, since 2 minutes with a search engine would tell her that the "Muslims are excempt from ACA!!!!11"-thing is a long-debunked hoax.

Snopes, as always, knows all.

 

[CORed]

Jay, the alleged "rules" notwithstanding, which you mis interpret -- all that is needed is for The Anointed One to give his permission. And that would end it once and for all.

Just like releasing the long form ended it once and for all.

 

[RandFan]

Jay, the alleged "rules" notwithstanding, which you mis interpret -- all that is needed is for The Anointed One to give his permission. And that would end it once and for all.

It can't be ended anymore than it has been ended. A duly sworn official in Hawaii has verified the document. Full faith and credit. End of story.