Empire State Building shooting

[Giz]

I was walking through that entrance in 1998. As a fellow survivor, I'm glad you're okay.

I was there in 2003, the lines were murder.

 

[zeggman]

I was there in 2003, the lines were murder.

In '98 the lines were still split between ESB and WTC. I'm glad to see you're okay too; I was pretty worried there for a while.

 

[Cain]

The scandal here is that we could reduce the number of workplace shootings if people were allowed to bring guns to the office. This only makes sense because you never known when some employee will suddenly snap.

 

[Kaylee]

*gulp* I walked past that last week...

I was walking through that entrance in 1998. As a fellow survivor, I'm glad you're okay.

I was there in 2003, the lines were murder.

In '98 the lines were still split between ESB and WTC. I'm glad to see you're okay too; I was pretty worried there for a while.

Yeah, glad you are all OK. I walk past there often, glad I didn't happen to be in that neighborhood today!

Seriously, that corner gets extremely crowded. I'm surprised that more people weren't hurt by stray bullets.

 

[casebro]

9,000 homicides, but how many of which were "legal interventions", self defense or police shootings?

And how many of those left were perps with drugs in their systems?

I just don't lose any sleep in fear of being murdered.

 

[mhaze]

Watching a NYPD news conference right now. They say Jeffery Johnson a disgruntled former employee of Hazan confronted and murdered a former co-worker then fled. A construction worker followed Johnson and alerted two policemen. The police officers confronted Johnson who fired at them and was killed.

It appears that nine bystanders were wounded in the crossfire and are at the hospital with non-life threatening wounds.

Ranb

They will likely all turn out to have been hit by police fire.

NY cops use a 10 pound trigger pull on their sidearms, which means they can't hardly hit what they aim at on a good day.

 

[TimCallahan]

They will likely all turn out to have been hit by police fire.

NY cops use a 10 pound trigger pull on their sidearms, which means they can't hardly hit what they aim at on a good day.

Since the shooter was using a shot gun, according to the OP, your hypothesis should be easy to test.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Since the shooter was using a shot gun, according to the OP, your hypothesis should be easy to test.

Reports are now saying it is a .45 pistol, early reports of "shotgun" appear to be media extrapolation from reports of a big gun.

Regardless, the officials are saying it is likely some of the injured were by the police firing, but there are reports of the gunman supposedely firing indiscriminately at the crowds when confronted.

 

[MG1962]

Reports are now saying it is a .45 pistol, early reports of "shotgun" appear to be media extrapolation from reports of a big gun.

Regardless, the officials are saying it is likely some of the injured were by the police firing, but there are reports of the gunman supposedely firing indiscriminately at the crowds when confronted.

Which puts the officers right in the middle of a damed if you do damned if you dont situation

 

[mgidm86]

The pride of doing that early should be lessened by the knowledge that it was a bloody conflict.

Here in Canada, We got our independance via signatures, not guns.

Because nobody cared

 

[mhaze]

Since the shooter was using a shot gun, according to the OP, your hypothesis should be easy to test.

Wrong as noted by another poster, but the ballistics reports will likely show up as I noted. Unfortunately.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Which puts the officers right in the middle of a damed if you do damned if you dont situation

Agreed. I have no idea what the best situation would be in this. I do not envy the choice those officers had to make one bit.

 

[Rat]

I just don't lose any sleep in fear of being murdered.

No, me neither.

 

[Cylinder]

2 killed, 9 wounded outside Empire State Building

A witness had told police that Johnson fired at the officers, but authorities say ballistics evidence so far doesn't support that. Johnson's .45-caliber weapon held seven rounds, they said. He fired five times at Ercolino, one round was still in the gun and one was ejected when officers secured it, authorities said.

If this is accurate, all of the wounded were shot by police.

Luckily, early reports are usually inaccurate.

 

[mhaze]

2 killed, 9 wounded outside Empire State Building




If this is accurate, all of the wounded were shot by police.

Luckily, early reports are usually inaccurate.

To have nine shot by police in putting this guy down and all nine to have only minor wounds (if that is true) is extremely, extremely lucky.

I wonder how this would be viewed if it had been a concealed carrying individual who had put the bad guy down and hit nine bystanders.....

 

[Ranb]

I wonder how this would be viewed if it had been a concealed carrying individual who had put the bad guy down and hit nine bystanders.....

As far as I know, little people don't get carry permits in NYC. Your situation could possibly be somewhere between these two extremes.

1. He or she is hailed as a hero who stopped a mad man from killing others.
2. He or she is vilified as an illegal gun toting vigilante who killed a misunderstood mentally ill man instead of allowing him a chance at trial and in the process gunned down eight innocent bystanders in the course of satisfying his or her demented blood lust fantasy of using their gun to mete out justice.

Ranb

 

[The Dark Lord]

They will likely all turn out to have been hit by police fire.

NY cops use a 10 pound trigger pull on their sidearms, which means they can't hardly hit what they aim at on a good day.

I think the triggers are actually 12 pounds. That would suck. What morons.

 

[Ranb]

It appears that all of the wounded people were hit by bullet fragments fired by the two police officers.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said the bystanders were not hit directly by police, but rather the officers' struck "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."

This would explain why they did not have life threatening wounds.

Ranb

 

[mhaze]

I think the triggers are actually 12 pounds. That would suck. What morons.

I guess we now have a whole new type of "Security Theater" to deal with.

 

[mhaze]

As far as I know, little people don't get carry permits in NYC. Your situation could possibly be somewhere between these two extremes.

1. He or she is hailed as a hero who stopped a mad man from killing others.
2. He or she is vilified as an illegal gun toting vigilante who killed a misunderstood mentally ill man instead of allowing him a chance at trial and in the process gunned down eight innocent bystanders in the course of satisfying his or her demented blood lust fantasy of using their gun to mete out justice.

Ranb

An innocent bystander harmed by gun use can bring suit. This is most certainly if the shooter is a private citizen, even if it is a life and death situation. There is no way that this would be looked on favorably.

In fact, hitting 9 innocent people while gunning down a bad guy may have set a new world record.