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Julia Gillard - liar

Paul Kelly asked her on Sky news today about the circumstances of her departure at Slater and Gordon. A very interesting exchange in which Gillard essentially accused Kelly of being a mouthpiece for others. He was rightly pissed off too.

I will try and get a transcript or video later.

This is now going seriously mainstream and for Gillard to put respected and influential commentators offside like that seems rather dangerous to me.

This is fun isn't it? :)
 
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Indeed, Fairfax are reporting on it now - albeit very gently. And if you read the facts and not just the biased Yabbie loving paragraphs you will find much of interest in there.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-...ot-of-smoke-20120818-24f3m.html#ixzz23vg1KMye

Here's a little support about the Milne claim:

That's not support about the Milne claim, that's a report of what happened with no support as to the truthfulness of Milne's claims. You might remember the correction that switfly followed:
THE AUSTRALIAN published today an opinion piece by Glenn Milne which includes assertions about the conduct of the Prime Minister.

The Australian acknowledges these assertions are untrue. The Australian also acknowledges no attempt was made by anyone employed by, or associated with, The Australian to contact the Prime Minister in relation to this matter.

The Australian unreservedly apologises to the Prime Minister and to its readers for the publication of these claims.

Again, I note that "much of interest" doesn't include any evidence, which makes it rather uninteresting to me. You're welcome to actually point out what you find of interest but your track record on that (as opposed to just linking to suggestive articles and implying) is rather poor.

Here's my choice quote from the article:
Pickering's storyline has become grubbier and more personal. By his own admission, he uses a lot of poetic licence. He embellishes this with salacious details about Ms Gillard and Mr Wilson's relationship, and he drops some of the nations biggest names in construction and politics.

''I have used melodrama,'' Pickering tells The Sun-Herald. ''That is what gets people in and gets them interested.''
 
That's not support about the Milne claim, that's a report of what happened with no support as to the truthfulness of Milne's claims. You might remember the correction that switfly followed:

Misunderstanding. I meant with regard to his (Milne's) dismissal.

Again, I note that "much of interest" doesn't include any evidence, which makes it rather uninteresting to me.

Others do find it interesting and as evidence to that, it is growing more and more legs and is now mainstream - in fact it was discussed (albeit very briefly) on Insiders this morning on the ABC.
Nor is the press there solely for your (or my for that matter) benefit.

As to evidence , well... I make no charges, how could I? Others do and seem to think they are on pretty strong footing, if they didn't they would not be putting their careers and livelihoods in jeopardy as did Milne and Smith.

There is far more to this than simply Pickering's writings, and to try and suggest otherwise is a rather narrow and/or biased prism from which to view the matter I'd have thought.
 
Now the ABC is reporting on the reporting.
Like I said, this is going mainstream.

Nick Styant-Browne, a former equity partner of Slater and Gordon, told The Australian the firm's probe included a confidential formal interview with Ms Gillard, who was then an industrial lawyer, on September 11, 1995.

He said in the interview, which was "recorded and transcribed", Ms Gillard could not categorically rule out that she had personally benefited from union funds in the renovation of her Melbourne house.

The Australian says the firm's probe revolved around Ms Gillard's work since mid-1992 for the Australian Workers Union, and her then boyfriend Bruce Wilson, the AWU's leader at the time.

Mr Styant-Browne told The Australian:

"She (Ms Gillard) had extensively renovated her own house in Abbotsford. Mr Wilson had assisted in the renovations. She believed she had paid for all the work and materials, and had receipts which she agreed to produce. She was aware someone had sought payment from the AWU for work and materials he had supplied for the house.
"He was mistaken or misinformed. But she could not categorically deny AWU union or Workplace Association monies had been used for any of the work. As at the time of the interview, her relationship with Mr Wilson had recently ended."

This is far from over in spite of her denials and venom spits.
 
OthersThe Worst Prime Minister Ever haters do find it interesting and as evidence to that, it is growing more and more legs and is now mainstream - in fact it was discussed (albeit very briefly) on Insiders this morning on the ABC.
There Alfie fixed your quote.
 
There Alfie fixed your quote.

No, actually you made it rather untrue. Unless of course you now consider the ABC, Fairfax and Sky all Gillard haters. :rolleyes:

This issue is spreading across a very broad range of political leanings.
And she seems a little too angry and rather desperate to boot. Have you caught the Paul Kelly interview yet?
 
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I should add - from that SMH article:
The documents show that West Australian police wanted to prosecute the men for the fraud but were thwarted because they could not get the company they believed to be the biggest victim, Thiess Contracting, to agree to file a police complaint.

The head of Thiess at the time was Mr Wilson's brother-in-law, Joe Trio, and the documents show that he told police he did not believe the company had been defrauded.
That is something I wasn't aware of (the refusal to file, not the relationship) and does make the outcome of the police investigation a lot more plausible to me. Still doesn't implicate Gillard though.

I'm sure regardless of the truth Pickering believes what he's saying (although the possibility that he really hates Gillard is there too). I'm sure Milne and Smith thought they were on strong footing once too.

I note that while A.A. Alfie kindly pointed out evidence that the claims were gathering steam and people found them interesting, he didn't point out evidence that the claims themselves are true. (Those about Gillard anyway; I don't think I'd argue much about Wilson.)
 
No actually, you made it untrue. Unless of course you now consider the ABC, Fairfax and Sky all Gillard haters. :rolleyes:

This issue is spreading across a very broad range of political leanings.
And she seems a little too angry and rather desperate to boot. Have you caught the Paul Kelly interview yet?

I'd be annoyed too if somebody wanted to discuss a decades-old event again when the only new information about it was evidence I wasn't involved (remember? the receipts?) - oh look, just like I said several posts ago:
The Prime Minister responded by describing the story as "malicious nonsense" and challenged Mr Kelly to come up with an allegation of any wrongdoing on her part.

"I'm not going to get myself into a circumstance where I spend my time dealing with a circumstance 17 years ago when the people who are asking the questions about them are unable to even articulate what it is they say I did wrong," she said.

"This is just nonsense and a distraction from the important work that I have to do as Prime Minister."

And all the stories I've seen are just as much about Pickering as the claims he's making. The ABC reported on Harold Camping's claims that the world would end last year, do you think that meant anything about his claims?

ETA: Bolt has a transcript of the Paul Kelly interview - which I assume is accurate - but I wouldn't want to steal the pleasure of linking to it for you.

ETA again: Having not read Bolt's blog for a while, I'm surprised how similar you and he are. Similar talking points (Bowen's police protection, this AWU stuff, even linking to the same articles). Phrases like the "love media". And (though it's hardly limited to you two) the continual "just asking questions" methodology.
 
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Now the ABC is reporting on the reporting.
Like I said, this is going mainstream.



This is far from over in spite of her denials and venom spits.

The venom spits from Gillard? Jesus, what do you call pickerings seeming obsession with her. In the normal public arena, he would be jailed for internet stalking. Not content with the allegations he makes, he admits he has to invent content to make even more venemous.
 
I'd be annoyed too if somebody wanted to discuss a decades-old event again when the only new information about it was evidence I wasn't involved (remember? the receipts?) - oh look, just like I said several posts ago:

There is a bit more to it than that. There are some stat decs by senior people that have come to light. A statement by Peter Gordon (Slater and Gordon) that she was sacked after the fraud was detected. To name a few.
It would also be naive to think that receipts cannot be easily manufactured.

And all the stories I've seen are just as much about Pickering as the claims he's making.

Which I actually pointed out when I posted the ABC article. :rolleyes:
 
There is a bit more to it than that. There are some stat decs by senior people that have come to light. A statement by Peter Gordon (Slater and Gordon) that she was sacked after the fraud was detected. To name a few.
It would also be naive to think that receipts cannot be easily manufactured.



Which I actually pointed out when I posted the ABC article. :rolleyes:

Nobody is disputing that she left* S&G after Wilson's dealings were detected and investigated**; what I'm saying is that you (and Pickering, and Milne, and Smith) haven't provided evidence that she knew about the fraud. Poor judgement, not following proper procedure or perhaps even the company wanting to avoid possible bad publicity could fit in the list of reasons I gave for why a journalist might lose their job, and apply just as much here, but they're hardly a smoking gun that's going to dethrone the PM.

It's entirely possible that the receipts were fake, but by merely having definitely existed (even if they don't any more) they're more proof than anything you've put forward. Considering the forum we're on, surely you've seen people pointing out than when somebody makes a claim the onus is on them to prove it, not others to disprove it. Pickering hasn't provided any proof (remember, he's claiming she's guilty of a crime). Milne and Smith never provided any proof. Back in 2007 the accusers had no proof. I don't expect you to have proof yourself, but you have studiously avoided having to acknowledge its total non-existence even when I've directly asked you. (And to make it clear, the claims/facts that Gillard had a relationship with Wilson and Wilson committed fraud aren't proof in and of themselves.)

Incidentally, while downtown yesterday I met up with a source in the coffeeshop. She told me that apparently back in the 1970s Tony Abbott was fed soup made from a (censored), and that there was a video of him eating it, but she didn't know where the video was. She claimed that he knew what the soup was too. Why hasn't he denied this claim? One wonders why. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

You also seem to have missed the point that a news organisation reporting that a claim has been made doesn't automatically add credence to the claim. And none (that I have seen) contain any new information that would. One had new words from Pickering, but still nothing that actually furthers his case.

Finally, I never claimed that you were Andrew Bolt, nor that he was your source, nor was this the implication. My surprise was that your ideas and comments and behavior are so similar to ones being published on the website of an actual newspaper. (I'm sure it won't come as a huge surprise to you that I rarely if ever read the Herald Sun.) I assure you that this has not altered my opinion of you but only further decreased my opinion of Andrew Bolt.

I look forward to your selective quoting and misconstrual of my sentences during your inevitable reply.


*I notice yesterday's Australian article doesn't say she was sacked, and will go with their use of "left". Gillard claims she resigned of course.

**To save time, though it's also only alleged, I'm just going to refer to it as fraud.
 
Actually, from what Picker has been saying, he's a self confessed liar.

The way read it he is, the way I heard the interview it was he was using poetic license to link facts. Perhaps you should actually listen toi the interview first to get context.

That aside, and to the main point: what law would he be "jailed for internet stalking"?
 
Nobody is disputing that she left* S&G after Wilson's dealings were detected and investigated**; what I'm saying is that you (and Pickering, and Milne, and Smith) haven't provided evidence that she knew about the fraud. Poor judgement, not following proper procedure or perhaps even the company wanting to avoid possible bad publicity could fit in the list of reasons I gave for why a journalist might lose their job, and apply just as much here, but they're hardly a smoking gun that's going to dethrone the PM.

No argument here except that I am not making any allegations and I have no evidence one way or the other.

It's entirely possible that the receipts were fake, but by merely having definitely existed (even if they don't any more) they're more proof than anything you've put forward. Considering the forum we're on, surely you've seen people pointing out than when somebody makes a claim the onus is on them to prove it, not others to disprove it.

Sure, but I've made no claim.
 
An article that's been doing the rounds recently that points out that every time Abbott refers to an asylum seeker as "illegal", he's lying (although that's not the main point).

Also: this delightfully opposite article
Is Larry Pickering a fraudster to the tune of $15 million? Is Larry Pickering a liar? Is Larry Pickering a plagiarist? Allegedly, yes.
It includes an ACA video where he refuses to answer questions about the allegations. Why didn't he sue ACA? One wonders why.
 
Really? Under what law would this be? Where did you get your legal training?

Harrassment via internet is a crime. The cartoon of Gillard with a strap on dildo reach the depths of sexism.

You still ignored the other point, which is your usual MO. Ignore the facts and the truth, spend endless hours on argument.

The venom directed at Gillard is amazing.
 
It looked very bad for Gillard on Agenda. Although even if true I don't see any path to forcing her to resign over something 17 years old
 

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