Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[tsig]

"There is no doubt in my mind that this computer generated image
never started out as a paper source document and was never
scanned in as described by the White House—it was digitally
created and manufactured."

-- Mara Zebest

http://www.mcso.org/MultiMedia/PressRelease/MARAZEBESTREPORT.pdf

Mara Zebest is a recognized expert and teacher of Adaobe and Microsoft programs for goverenemnt employees and Fortune 500 Companies, co-author and technical editor for over 100 books, a dozen for Adobe programs.

Why not create a fake paper document then scan that in?

 

[tsig]

No. I'm not going to read 129 pages of whatever because everything could not have possibly been covered -- specifically, Sheriff Joe and his investigator's recent press conference of July 17th detailing evidence of fraud in Obama's alleged long form Birth Certificate.

Does Sheriff Joe get his acting ability from Omar Sheriff?

 

[Arisia]

While it wouldn't prove Obama was born in Hawaii, it would prove that the long form PDF file released by the WH was not a forgery.

That says it all folks... even if he were shown the actual piece of paper from the vaults by the Governor of Hawai'i, he would find some way to avoid seeing it as proof of Obama's eligibility to be President... Is there any point in continuing to engage him?

 

[JayUtah]

No. I'm not going to read 129 pages of whatever because everything could not have possibly been covered -- specifically, Sheriff Joe and his investigator's recent press conference of July 17th detailing evidence of fraud in Obama's alleged long form Birth Certificate.

If you can't be bothered to inform yourself about the state of the debate then what right have you to participate in it? This is a serious question.

 

[Biscuit]

No. I'm not going to read 129 pages of whatever because everything could not have possibly been covered -- specifically, Sheriff Joe and his investigator's recent press conference of July 17th detailing evidence of fraud in Obama's alleged long form Birth Certificate.

Why wont you address the fact that elected members of the GOP have been found negligent in their duties and in violation of their Oaths Of Office?

Observing a crime makes you a witness, doing nothing to stop it makes you a coward.

Why does the GOP hate America and the Constitution?

 

[KDLarsen]

No. I'm not going to read 129 pages of whatever because everything could not have possibly been covered -- specifically, Sheriff Joe and his investigator's recent press conference of July 17th detailing evidence of fraud in Obama's alleged long form Birth Certificate.

Then how about reading and digesting the information provided here:
http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/arpaio-report/
and here:
http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/arpaio-2-in-2d-the-shock-of-zullo/

Detailing the lies and falsehoods promoted by Arpaio and his associates at their two press conferences so far.

Edit: Oh and by the way, the first report also has a link to a photo taken of the physical copy of the LFBC that was shown at the White House press conference last year, courtesy of NBC News' Savannah Guthrie.

 

[elbe]

Why not create a fake paper document then scan that in?

That would, likely, be far easier than digitally manufacturing it.

 

[Robert Prey]

Then how about reading and digesting the information provided here:
http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/arpaio-report/
and here:
http://www.thefogbow.com/special-reports/arpaio-2-in-2d-the-shock-of-zullo/

Detailing the lies and falsehoods promoted by Arpaio and his associates at their two press conferences so far.

Edit: Oh and by the way, the first report also has a link to a photo taken of the physical copy of the LFBC that was shown at the White House press conference last year, courtesy of NBC News' Savannah Guthrie.

There is nothing on those sites that refutes the substantive charges made at the July 27 press conference, nor is there any proof offered that the lfbc is anything other than a digital creation, other than a pronouncement to the contrary. But if you think there is an falsehood perpetrated, then name one. (not 50, just one).

 

[Unabogie]

There is nothing on those sites that refutes the substantive charges made at the July 27 press conference, nor is there any proof offered that the lfbc is anything other than a digital creation, other than a pronouncement to the contrary. But if you think there is an falsehood perpetrated, then name one. (not 50, just one).

Why, is there a limit on the number of falsehoods you can process?

If you are asked more than one question or shown 50 falsehoods, what stops you from only answering what you want to answer?

Oh, wait, that's two questions. I've already ruined it.

 

[KDLarsen]

There is nothing on those sites that refutes the substantive charges made at the July 27 press conference, nor is there any proof offered that the lfbc is anything other than a digital creation, other than a pronouncement to the contrary. But if you think there is an falsehood perpetrated, then name one. (not 50, just one).

No need, they have already been laid out for you - on those very two sites you claim refutes nothing

 

[Ladewig]

Is there any point in continuing to engage him?

For me, it is just ****s and giggles.
Or as our friends across the sea might say: a bit of taking the mickey.


Is there anyone here taking this discussion seriously?

 

[TjW]

There is nothing on those sites that refutes the substantive charges made at the July 27 press conference, nor is there any proof offered that the lfbc is anything other than a digital creation, other than a pronouncement to the contrary. But if you think there is an falsehood perpetrated, then name one. (not 50, just one).

Of course it's a digital creation. Everything on the web is a digital creation of one sort or another. The relevant question would be: what was it created from?

It's presented as being a scan of a certified copy sent by Hawaii.
In support of that, the relevant officials from Hawaii have said that it shows the same information that they have in the official registry.

Now, it's certainly possible that someone created it by digitally altering a different document than that sent by Hawaii to show information identical to that sent by Hawaii. But if they did, what relevance does it have? This isn't the document used to show eligibility for office prior to the election. The certified copy it is alleged to be a scan of wasn't generated by Hawaii until after the election. So it couldn't have been used for any sort of election purpose at all.

 

[elbe]

For me, it is just ****s and giggles.
Or as our friends across the sea might say: a bit of taking the mickey.


Is there anyone here taking this discussion seriously?

Personally, I'm taking it as conceit by people like Robert that they can't defeat Obama legitimately in November so they'll resort to trying, in vain, to undermine his presidency.

 

[JayUtah]

There is nothing on those sites that refutes the substantive charges made at the July 27 press conference, nor is there any proof offered that the lfbc is anything other than a digital creation, other than a pronouncement to the contrary. But if you think there is an falsehood perpetrated, then name one. (not 50, just one).

The latest press conference simply reiterates the same charges made three years ago, that have been discussed at length here, discussed elsewhere at length by qualified experts (no, Zebest isn't one), and tried in court with disastrous outcomes for Birthers.

You refuse to read this thread, so you are not an authority on what rebuttals it does and does not contain. Your refusal, however, does indicate a futility in attempting to engage you, since you've thereby basically predetermined not to read or respond to rebuttals. Therefore the question remains valid: why should anyone engage you here?

 

[JayUtah]

...what relevance does it have?

None. That's the point. The Birthers have so often shifted the goalposts that they don't realize when they've shifted them right off the playing field.

At first they questioned the authenticity of the digest birth certificate. Forgery! they cried. Then they questioned the authenticity of the long-form birth certificate. Again, Forgery! That alone is hilarious, as they wrongly believed the paper circulated at the White House press conference was simply a printout of the PDF. Therefore they did (and still do) expend exhaustive effort trying to impeach the PDF even though it has no bearing on Obama's eligibility.

But now that evidence shows the press and others saw an actual certified paper copy, and now that Hawaiian officials have certified the material details contained in the paper copy and in the PDF, the Birthers are shifting the goalposts again to focus on the original paper record, which they now say must be a forgery.

Forgery here, forgery there, forgery everywhere! The Birther response to every action in this matter is a knee-jerk accusation of Witch! Forgery! followed by demands to undertake extraordinary, unprecedented, and at times illegal steps to dispel their unsubstantiated accusations. Their goalpost-shifting incurs an increasingly improbable and absurd chain of speculation.

 

[JayUtah]

Is there anyone here taking this discussion seriously?

Yes, I have taken it seriously up to this point. Which is to say, I have followed the arguments on both sides and contributed where I felt it was relevant. One can disbelieve the claims of the other side and have good reasons for considering their opinions to be foolishly founded, but at the same time conduct a discussion with appropriate decorum and honesty. However our present pro-Birther contributor has a long history on this forum, and prefers to debate in a manner that bodes ill for serious consideration.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

The whole OCR argument is effectively a strawman used by Zebest in order to ignore several points, 1.) the document was scanned in Apple QuartzPDF, not Adobe. 2.) the anamolies being pointed out are easily explained by the Apple QuartzPDF algorithm, which shows "layers" that would make no sense for a person to compile. 3.) the PDF that she presented as evidence is one she her self has effectively created using Adobe CS5.

Oh, and finally she ignores that Hawaii confirms the existence of the vital information, and certifies the certificate meaning the Full Faith and Credit Clause trumps the wackiness of the ol' Shuriff. And given that I don't wish to re argue the entire existing thread I will simply ignore the person that keeps posting without actually responding to counter arguments.

 

[KDLarsen]

Oh, and finally she ignores that Hawaii confirms the existence of the vital information, and certifies the certificate meaning the Full Faith and Credit Clause trumps the wackiness of the ol' Shuriff. And given that I don't wish to re argue the entire existing thread I will simply ignore the person that keeps posting without actually responding to counter arguments.

Personally, I just find it amusing that Arpaio and his posse haven't said a peep about the original COLB. Y'know, the document released 4 years ago, which is prima facie evidence of birth in the Aloha State.

Instead he's yappering on about selective service records etc., none of which has any bearing on Barack Obama's eligibilty to serve as President of the US of A.

 

[Dcdrac]

and there is this Sheriff not doing his job as well

 

[Biscuit]

For me, it is just ****s and giggles.
Or as our friends across the sea might say: a bit of taking the mickey.


Is there anyone here taking this discussion seriously?

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

You would think Burke was talking to you and me directly warning us of the good men in GOP who do NOTHING!