Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

[JayUtah]

I have a strong suspicion that the insiders know the truth.

Your suspicion is not proof.

And former Hawaii Election official Tim Adams has made the claim that it actually is an open secret.

Has that question been addressed already in this thread?

 

[Robert Prey]

Stop putting words in my mouth.

I don't accept your speculation that the birth certificate is a "lie," hence I don't consider the certification inappropriate. The certification stands in lieu of foreign claims of forgery.

But if the Birth Certificate were a lie, would an official pronouncement to the contrary make it not a lie?????

 

[elbe]

I have a strong suspicion that the insiders know the truth.

That's not very good evidence, now is it?

And former Hawaii Election official Tim Adams has made the claim that it actually is an open secret.

Hmm, according to the Washington Post:

I checked with Glen Takahashi, the administrator of the Honolulu City Clerk's office, and while he verified that Adams worked there, he explained – gently making it clear he did not want to "call anyone a liar" -- that Adams never actually had access to information about Barack Obama.

"Our office does not have access to birth records," Takahashi said. "That's handled by the state of Hawaii Department of Health. Where he's getting that, I don't know. Put it this way: Barack Obama was not trying to register to vote in Hawaii. He is, as far as I know, not a registered voter here. So no one was looking that up."

I'm not sure I'd want random election officials to have access to the kind of data Adams claims he had. So, I don't know, I'm inclined to believe he lied and managed to get his 15 minutes in the birther-sphere. I think it's easier to believe that a single person is lying for personal gain than an organized coverup. Occam's razor, if you will.

 

[IMST]

No. Even the few who suspect birth certificate fraud know very well that to pursue it would be futile in a nation where virtually the entire mainstream media worships at the feet of The Anointed One. And to even talk of it in a political campaign would be political suicide. But... after a favorable result of the Nov.election, that could change.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/2012...coverage-more-negative-than-romney-s-20120423

Mitt Romney has publicly griped about the way the news media have covered him, but the presumptive GOP nominee has gotten better press in 2012 than President Obama, according to a study by the Pew Research Center's Project for Excellence in Journalism.
The study found that Obama’s negative coverage exceeded positive coverage in 14 of 15 weeks examined, while positive coverage outweighed negative for Romney in six of the 15 weeks and was fairly evenly divided in four more.

 

[Biscuit]

No. Even the few who suspect birth certificate fraud know very well that to pursue it would be futile in a nation where virtually the entire mainstream media worships at the feet of The Anointed One. And to even talk of it in a political campaign would be political suicide. But... after a favorable result of the Nov.election, that could change.

So every elected member of the GOP and tea party is a coward that puts his parties power and his own self interest ahead his nation, its constitution, and the oath they took to protect it. Good to know you think so little of the GOP and the tea party.

 

[Robert Prey]

That's not very good evidence, now is it?



Hmm, according to the Washington Post:


I'm not sure I'd want random election officials to have access to the kind of data Adams claims he had. So, I don't know, I'm inclined to believe he lied and managed to get his 15 minutes in the birther-sphere. I think it's easier to believe that a single person is lying for personal gain than an organized coverup. Occam's razor, if you will.

If Adams had access to the information, then it would not be an open "secret" but the open truth. Adams admits he heard it from lots of the insiders, in other words "hearsay". But that does not make it untrue. And it certainly would explain the strange machinations of what should be a simple, easily answered question, explained by simply producing the original document.

 

[Robert Prey]

So every elected member of the GOP and tea party is a coward that puts his parties power and his own self interest ahead his nation, its constitution, and the oath they took to protect it. Good to know you think so little of the GOP and the tea party.

Neither clever nor funny. The nation would not be served by a Constitutional Crisis just before a Presidential Election. Obviously.

 

[Biscuit]

Neither clever nor funny. The nation would not be served by a Constitutional Crisis just before a Presidential Election. Obviously.

And for the past 4 years they have doing what?

The congressional oath of office,

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter unless its an election year: So help me God.

Before anyone freaks out the highlighted part was added by me.

No. Its quite clear that every congressman and senator from the GOP and the tea party is in violation of their solemn oath. They should be removed from office immediately and replaced with conservatives that have the fortitude, honor, and courage to execute their oath of office.

 

[Rich_C]

And for the past 4 years they have doing what?

The congressional oath of office,



Before anyone freaks out the highlighted part was added by me.

No. Its quite clear that every congressman and senator from the GOP and the tea party is in violation of their solemn oath. They should be removed from office immediately and replaced with conservatives that have the fortitude, honor, and courage to execute their oath of office.

So Orly Taitz is the only patriotic Tea Partier?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

I have a strong suspicion that the insiders know the truth. And former Hawaii Election official Tim Adams has made the claim that it actually is an open secret.

you mean the temporary employee / data entry clerk?

 

[Neutiquam Erro]

If Adams had access to the information, then it would not be an open "secret" but the open truth.

The evidence is the lack of evidence. I see what you did there.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

But if the Birth Certificate were a lie, would an official pronouncement to the contrary make it not a lie?????

Actually, under our laws, if it is officially certified as a valid state record, then it is a valid, official, state record.

 

[TjW]

Yeah, well official statements are not proof.

Constitutionally speaking, official statements are proof.

 

[Biscuit]

So Orly Taitz is the only patriotic Tea Partier?

Is she an elected official that has taken an oath to protect and uphold the constitution?

I am glad RP has opened our eyes to the cowardly and disgusting behavior of conservative politicians in DC. They swore before their GOD to honor the oath of office but then they toss their oath and, one could argue, their GOD aside for their own selfish needs. Political suicide or political expediency? Sick.

 

[DavidJames]

To CTists and lunatics, "proof" is like natural rights, it's means whatever the hell they want it to mean.

 

[Rich_C]

Is she an elected official that has taken an oath to protect and uphold the constitution?

She would be if everyone wasn't conspiring against her! She even sued when she lost that primary a couple years ago. Too bad every judge she has ever gone before has been one of the conspirators also.

 

[Biscuit]

She would be if everyone wasn't conspiring against her! She even sued when she lost that primary a couple years ago. Too bad every judge she has ever gone before has been one of the conspirators also.

Those darn Obamaphiles are everywhere!!!

 

[JayUtah]

But if the Birth Certificate were a lie, would an official pronouncement to the contrary make it not a lie?????

Irrelevant hypotheticals. The Hawaii secretary of state has certified that Obama was born there, and that the records to that effect are true and correct. You may choose to disbelieve him, but your choice has no bearing on federal election policy.

 

[Ladewig]

No. Even the few who suspect birth certificate fraud know very well that to pursue it would be futile in a nation where virtually the entire mainstream media worships at the feet of The Anointed One. And to even talk of it in a political campaign would be political suicide. But... after a favorable result of the Nov.election, that could change.

So, again. I have to make sure I have this straight.

Even the senators that are not up for re-election this cycle are afraid of exposing Obama because a Constitutional crisis before an election is worse than a Constitutional crisis after an election. Do you have a reason that they didn't expose him last year instead of "right before an election"?

Do you understand that if Obama wins the election and is not exposed before the end of January, then Biden will take over as president? Your position seems to be that the Republicans are so afraid of a Constitutional crisis that they are willing to let the Democrats hold the White House for four more years.

And as others have pointed out, your position is that avoiding a Constitutional crisis before an election is more important than A) getting elected, B) following their oath to uphold the Constitution, and C) bringing to justice a treasonous criminal bent on destroying America. Doesn't the idea of preventing Obama from harming America in the next six months seem more important that avoiding a Constitutional crisis.

An analogy. The city police know that the mayor is a serial killer, but he is very popular and the local media really like him. Doesn't it strike you as the very height of irresponsibility and criminal negligence for the police to say, "let's wait until after November to arrest the mayor, because we don't want the city to be upset before the election"?

 

[JayUtah]

But that does not make it untrue.

No, but it makes it hearsay. If you want to argue that it is or was known to the state of Hawaii that Obama's authoritative vital records were not properly available to the proper custodians, then find someone who knows -- not someone who may have heard someone else say so. Adams' testimony is hearsay, and therefore unverifiable, unreliable, and inadmissible.

Further, since there is evidence to the contrary that is admissible, your claim is moot.

Hearsay -- evidence rejected.

And it certainly would explain the strange machinations of what should be...

No. You do not get to make the laws, rules, and regulations governing the access to vital records in the State of Hawaii.

Begging the question -- argument rejected.

...explained by simply producing the original document.

You're duplicating a discussion that has already occurred many times in this thread.

Straw man -- argument rejected.

The officials charged with verifying the eligibility of candidates to the U.S. Presidency have examined the documents pertaining to Barack Obama's birth and have concluded that they are authentic, valid, and correct. Your belief otherwise is irrelevant.