Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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Upchurch said:
If you consider a birth certificate worthless in establishing a person's place of birth, what difference would the original birth certificate make?
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While it wouldn't prove Obama was born in Hawaii, it would prove that the long form PDF file released by the WH was not a forgery.
 
Robert Prey said:
I's say it's anti-American to violate the Constitution. That's what's anti-American.
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The Constitution of the United States of America said:
Article. IV.
Section. 1.
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
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Arizona's Sheriff Joe refuses to give credence to Hawaii's public records. By your own standard, that makes him anti-American.
 
TjW said:
Arizona's Sheriff Joe refuses to give credence to Hawaii's public records. By your own standard, that makes him anti-American.
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Full faith and credit have nothing to do with Sheriff Joe's investigation of a crime. The state of Arizona has given recognition to Hawaii's Obama birth certificate, presuming it to be valid. Thus, there is no violation of the full faith and credit clause.
 
Tomtomkent said:
I too recall this event. If we find 38 more witnesses to the event, who say the certificate was genuine in their self appointed expertise (and we all review each others findings favourably as peers) we can declare "a slam dunk". Robert was quite clear on thses rules.

Anybody else want to play the "I am sparticus" defence?
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I verify that Obama's birth certificate is authentic. My expertise is 33 years of looking at real things.
 
Robert Prey said:
Full faith and credit have nothing to do with Sheriff Joe's investigation of a crime. The state of Arizona has given recognition to Hawaii's Obama birth certificate, presuming it to be valid. Thus, there is no violation of the full faith and credit clause.
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The state of Hawaii has certified that it is valid. Arizona may not therefore question its validity without violating full faith and credit.

Joe Arpaio's investigation is irrelevant. He is a county sheriff with no jurisdiction in the matter, unless he can prove the alleged forgery occurred within his county. He has further been overruled by higher state authority on the matter of the certificate's validity.

This was covered many times in this thread already. Please do your homework.
 
Robert Prey said:
Full faith and credit have nothing to do with Sheriff Joe's investigation of a crime. The state of Arizona has given recognition to Hawaii's Obama birth certificate, presuming it to be valid. Thus, there is no violation of the full faith and credit clause.
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It's not forgery to make a copy of something. There are many reproductions of Van Gogh's "Starry Night". None of them are forgeries, because they don't claim to be the original, only to look something like it.
They're generally ink on paper rather than paint on canvas. Even so, that doesn't make them forgeries. They're reproductions in another medium.
The .pdf file is a reproduction in a different medium. It's well enough reproduced that the relevant authorities have said the information presented in it matches their official information. So it isn't a forgery.
So what is the crime?
 
TjW said:
It's not forgery to make a copy of something. There are many reproductions of Van Gogh's "Starry Night". None of them are forgeries, because they don't claim to be the original, only to look something like it.
They're generally ink on paper rather than paint on canvas. Even so, that doesn't make them forgeries. They're reproductions in another medium.
The .pdf file is a reproduction in a different medium. It's well enough reproduced that the relevant authorities have said the information presented in it matches their official information. So it isn't a forgery.
So what is the crime?
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If the "copy" is altered, then it is a forgery.
 
Robert Prey said:
If the "copy" is altered, then it is a forgery.
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Nope. The reproductions of "Starry Night" are necessarily altered. They're ink on paper. The color balance may not be quite right. Some of them may be a little cropped from the original.
They're still not forgeries.
 
You know Robert Prey given that the thread was merged with the greater Obama conspiracy thread you have the opportunity to click the start of the thread and read. You will be so shocked at how much we have debunked over the years.
 
TjW said:
Nope. The reproductions of "Starry Night" are necessarily altered. They're ink on paper. The color balance may not be quite right. Some of them may be a little cropped from the original.
They're still not forgeries.
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I think you're confusing the concept of a forged document with a forged artwork. In the former case, the document is one that never originally existed, and therefore it's the alteration from an original document that makes it a forgery. In the latter, the forgery is an attempt at an exact copy that's indistinguishable from the original, so it's the similarity that makes it a forgery.

Neither of these cases, of course, is analogous to President Obama's birth certificate, which has been proven beyond reasonable doubt to be genuine, so that only unreasonable people continue to believe otherwise.

Dave
 
Robert Prey said:
Full faith and credit have nothing to do with Sheriff Joe's investigation of a crime. The state of Arizona has given recognition to Hawaii's Obama birth certificate, presuming it to be valid. Thus, there is no violation of the full faith and credit clause.
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What crime has taken place in his jurisdiction which he was investigating?
 
Robert Prey said:
While it wouldn't prove Obama was born in Hawaii, it would prove that the long form PDF file released by the WH was not a forgery.
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Well, it seems to me like there's very little point in putting the original birth certificate out there then, since Birthers will never admit to what it obviously indicates, that our current President meets all the requirements stated in the Constitution for him to hold the office.
 
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