And the boats keep coming

[uvar]

Good analysis, but make no mistake, the Coalition will take the path which will maximize their vote. The pollsters and focus groups will be working overtime tonight.

I was almost considering watching Q&A to see the opinions there - almost. With Gillard wanting to get the legislation started this week there certainly won't be a shortage of news.

It's also dependent on other things that aren't as easy to change - setting up the foreign centres and holding them to a certain level of quality was the first that came to mind, along with the 'comprehensive regional network', and improving access from originating countries like Afghanistan was one mentioned in the report that was particularly intriguing but apparently vague on the details. And again these are longer-term projects that will have to be dealt with by successive governments with likely different policies on the matter, let alone the opinions of the countries the centres are actually located in. I still haven't finished the report, but there also doesn't seem to be a lot of discussion on how the typical asylum seeker would manage in the proposed system past 'less likely to risk a boat trip', and I'd rather not see widespread hunger strikes and suicides make their return.

 

[Dcdrac]

just pointing out this works both ways.

Evey single Aussie I know or have known in London has overstayed their visa, worked and stayed her illegally.

Me I do not care about it, but just pointing out it cuts both ways.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

just pointing out this works both ways.

Evey single Aussie I know or have known in London has overstayed their visa, worked and stayed her illegally.

Me I do not care about it, but just pointing out it cuts both ways.

Are they dying at sea too?

 

[a_unique_person]

It must really suck for many here, in government, the greens (who are squealing like infants) for this independant committee to essentially validate so much of what the coalition has been saying all along.

It is simply further confirmation of Gillard's ineptitude.

Suck it up!

Like I said, the politics will be interesting this week and the worst PM ever now has a chance to finally try and do the right thing. Only time will tell how this plays out but the potential political machinations are tantalising.

Whoosh. The said it is a package, without the whole package it won't work. The package includes a massive increase in the number of refugees who are waiting in Indonesia and other places. That is, they will come here directly through us, rather than taking boats. Which is in many ways stopping the boats, by giving most of them a quick trip here as refugees. Nauru and Manus will be used as they have been in the past, as a means of punishing those who take to the boats.

They also don't back the 'turn back the boats' slogan. They believe Malaysia can work with some more negotiations.

Glad to see the misery of refugees is 'tantalising' for you.

 

[a_unique_person]

.nm

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Whoosh. The said it is a package, without the whole package it won't work.

That's not quite correct. They have given a suite of ideas that they recommend be rolled out over time. From what I read they have not said that "the whole package" needs to be adopted for it to work.

Please feel free to show me evidence to the contrary.

The package includes a massive increase in the number of refugees who are waiting in Indonesia and other places.

Yep... and? I have been in favour of increasing our intake for a long time.

That is, they will come here directly through us, rather than taking boats.

Correct. Now people won't need to die at sea. Good news I'd have thought.

Which is in many ways stopping the boats, by giving most of them a quick trip here as refugees.

Yep. Good.

Nauru and Manus will be used as they have been in the past, as a means of punishing those who take to the boats.

More a deterrent than a punishment I'd have thought.

They also don't back the 'turn back the boats' slogan.

Really? Only the slogan? What do they say about the policy?
Feel free to provide citations and quotes.

They believe Malaysia can work with some more negotiations.

Correct: "The people-swap deal with Malaysia should be ''built on, not discarded'' but the panel warned that, if it was to work, protection measures and safety guarantees for the fate of asylum seekers sent from Australia to Malaysia were needed."

Also something that I was personally OK with IF the safeguards were put in place. Sensible thinking.

Glad to see the misery of refugees is 'tantalising' for you.

Clearly you prefer children drowning.
And if you read it correctly I referred only to "the politics" of it as tantalising.

 

[a_unique_person]

ALEXANDRA KIRK: A final warning from the panel for Parliamentarians: no picking and choosing what they deem politically palatable or expedient.

ANGUS HOUSTON: The important thing is we get this balance that we have designed between incentive and disincentive, you wouldn't want to mess with that.

This is also a new set of proposals. Offshore processing by itself is not acceptable to the panel, it is only in if the increased refugee intake happens.

SAMANTHA HAWLEY: OK. Is the offshore aspect of this plan a return to the Howard government's Pacific Solution?

MICHAEL L'ESTRANGE: You know I think some of the labels that get attached in this debate are again unhelpful. What we're saying is that you will not have a viable approach to this issue without elements of incentive and disincentive. Looking at one at the expense of the other is not going to work.


He is basically saying the oppositions plan of just offshore processing won't work, that they have to adopt the whole package incentive and disincentive.

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2012/s3566809.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2012/s3566791.htm

 

[Dcdrac]

In the words of that old ditty Feed the World

Just thank God its them and not you.....

 

[Dcdrac]

I recall as a child reading a book with the premise that the Norther Hempisphere had fallen prey to an out of control plastic eating substance, a work of fiction, it is sealed off while the problem is delat with and the civilain populations evacuated.

the story centred onthe experiences of western children being refugees in camps in North Africa.

The title was a chemicl Equation but the story has stayed with me ever since.

 

[Sideroxylon]

That's not quite correct. They have given a suite of ideas that they recommend be rolled out over time. From what I read they have not said that "the whole package" needs to be adopted for it to work.

Please feel free to show me evidence to the contrary.



Yep... and? I have been in favour of increasing our intake for a long time.



Correct. Now people won't need to die at sea. Good news I'd have thought.



Yep. Good.



More a deterrent than a punishment I'd have thought.



Really? Only the slogan? What do they say about the policy?
Feel free to provide citations and quotes.



Correct: "The people-swap deal with Malaysia should be ''built on, not discarded'' but the panel warned that, if it was to work, protection measures and safety guarantees for the fate of asylum seekers sent from Australia to Malaysia were needed."

Also something that I was personally OK with IF the safeguards were put in place. Sensible thinking.



Clearly you prefer children drowning.
And if you read it correctly I referred only to "the politics" of it as tantalising.

My bold
More of the same silly rhetoric.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

ALEXANDRA KIRK: A final warning from the panel for Parliamentarians: no picking and choosing what they deem politically palatable or expedient.

ANGUS HOUSTON: The important thing is we get this balance that we have designed between incentive and disincentive, you wouldn't want to mess with that.

This is also a new set of proposals. Offshore processing by itself is not acceptable to the panel, it is only in if the increased refugee intake happens.

I don't think it says quite what you want it to say. By the same token I am not that fussed either way, the government will choose exactly what it wants to use. Remember the Henry review?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

This poll in the Age today seems to vindicate the coalition too:

Poll: Which side of politics has come out looking best in the asylum seeker stand-off?

Labor, for a necessary compromise 20%

The Coalition, for sticking to their policies 57%

The Greens, for sticking to their principles 3%

No side 18%

Not sure 2%

Total votes: 4634.

In The Age!

She really is useless.

 

[lionking]

The Scum is showing his true colours. He just asked a question about why the government won't adopt the two other "essential" elements of turning back boats and temporary protection visas, both of which were not endorsed by the Expert Panel. Shamefully and cynically trying to find ways to vote against the bill, and let more people drown. There no depths to which Abbott will not stoop. Worst Opposition Leader Ever, by far.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

The Scum is showing his true colours. He just asked a question about why the government won't adopt the two other "essential" elements of turning back boats and temporary protection visas, both of which were not endorsed by the Expert Panel.

Untrue.
Both elements were alluded to in principle within the report. In the case of turning back the boats; as something that could work, but not in the current form (owtte), as was Malaysia.

Recommendation 19
The Panel notes that the conditions necessary for effective, lawful and safe turnback of irregular vessels carrying asylum seekers to Australia are not currently met, but that this situation could change in the future, in particular if appropriate regional and bilateral arrangements are in place (paragraphs 3.77-3.80).

TPVs were not directly referred to however there was the reference to special visas (owtte) that needed to be fully reviewed and implemented. Clearly a reference to something along the same lines as TPVs.

Recommendation 15
The Panel recommends that a thorough review of refugee status determination (RSD ) would be timely and useful (paragraphs 3.74-3.76).

 

[lionking]

Untrue.
Both elements were alluded to in principle within the report. In the case of turning back the boats; as something that could work, but not in the current form (owtte), as was Malaysia.



TPVs were not directly referred to however there was the reference to special visas (owtte) that needed to be fully reviewed and implemented. Clearly a reference to something along the same lines as TPVs.

So in other words, no.

Comments as pathetic as those of the Scum.

 

[Wildy]

So does anyone else think that any legislation based on this report will ultimately fail in parliament because the coalition will refuse to compromise?

 

[Akhenaten]

So does anyone else think that any legislation based on this report will ultimately fail in parliament because the coalition will refuse to compromise?

Wrecking stuff is their 'thing'. It's all they know how to do.

Worst opposition ever.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

The Scum is showing his true colours. He just asked a question about why the government won't adopt the two other "essential" elements of turning back boats and temporary protection visas, both of which were not endorsed by the Expert Panel.

Let's try this again then.
How are they not endorsed when they are in fact referenced in one way or another?

Turning back the boats for example is just as endorsed as Malaysia is (i.e. both need work). Would you now exlude Malaysia from discussions as "not endorsed" as well?

So does anyone else think that any legislation based on this report will ultimately fail in parliament because the coalition will refuse to compromise?

I can't see that happening - and I certainly hope it doesn't.
But the coalition would be foolish in not grinding out every inch of political mileage against the Gillard and her abjectly inept handling of this whole issue.

 

[lionking]

So does anyone else think that any legislation based on this report will ultimately fail in parliament because the coalition will refuse to compromise?

I'm pretty certain this will occur. The Opposition will move amendments aimed to "strengthen" the legislation, which will include TPVs. They will be rejected, and the Scum will then blame Labor, while revelling in more deaths at sea.

Worst Opposition Leader Ever.

 

[Akhenaten]

<snip>

But the coalition would be foolish in not grinding out every inch of political mileage against the Gillard

<snip>

Because that's so much more important than finding a solution as quickly as possible.