Australia's carbon (dioxide) tax

[bit_pattern]

Why the carbon-tax ‘python’ won’t squeeze the economy

Some critics of carbon pricing have pointed out that, over time, the carbon price will increase to a much higher level and devastate the economy. Indeed, the image of a python squeezing the life out of the economy has been painted to describe this. However, this view is based on a misunderstanding of how carbon pricing works, and confusion over the difference between the price per unit of carbon and the overall impact on household and business costs.

Most analysts expect the carbon price to increase over time as the “low hanging fruit” of abatement options is captured and we have to adopt more expensive ways (such as carbon capture and storage and coslty forms of renewable energy) to make deeper emission cuts. By 2050, many estimates indicate the price might exceed $150 per tonne.

However, at the same time, the greenhouse intensity of energy, goods, and services will decline as businesses and households act to cut their emissions. This will reduce the impact of a higher carbon price per tonne on total carbon costs experienced by consumers. For example, Treasury expects the greenhouse intensity of Australian electricity to fall by over three-quarters by 2050, as renewable energy and gas replaces coal fired power. On top of this, we will be more energy efficient, so we will use less electricity to deliver each service such as lighting, comfort, refrigeration, and so on.

http://theconversation.edu.au/why-the-carbon-tax-python-wont-squeeze-the-economy-8375

 

[Orphia Nay]

Released today by the ABS:

Recording Emissions Reduction Schemes in ABS Statistics

(And follow the link/s therein.)

 

[Hallo Alfie]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-01/manufacturing-slumps-in-july/4168832

A leading private index shows the Australian manufacturing sector slumped in July, with industry groups in part blaming the carbon tax.

The reports authors say wages and input costs, including the upstream impacts of carbon pricing, rose, while selling prices declined further.

The report suggests this indicates a limited ability for businesses to pass on carbon price cost increases to customers.

"Manufacturers are responding by reassessing and re-modelling their businesses but, as suggested by another drop in new orders and with the full impact of the carbon tax still to be felt, further falls in overall activity are likely in the months ahead."

Sigh. Only one month in and already we start seeing the negative and anticipated effects.

We were warned.

Meanwhile, New Zealand remain in reality and have abandoned entering a carbon market - not wishing to adversely affect industry and their economy. We can't even influence our closest and nearest neighbours, let alone the rest of the world.

 

[wombatwal]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-01/manufacturing-slumps-in-july/4168832

A leading private index shows the Australian manufacturing sector slumped in July, with industry groups in part blaming the carbon tax.

What part? What percentage. And of course their evidence.
Can you supply evidence for this Alfie. Or is it just fear mongering and buck passing by this body.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

What part? What percentage. And of course their evidence.
Can you supply evidence for this Alfie. Or is it just fear mongering and buck passing by this body.

You'd better ask the ABC; it's their reporting after all. I am simply bringing this to your attention.

Perhaps you think the ABC are part of the hate media too?

 

[wombatwal]

You'd better ask the ABC; it's their reporting after all. I am simply bringing this to your attention.

Perhaps you think the ABC are part of the hate media too?

Well, it is all very general with no idea as to the impact of the carbon tax on all of this.
You were talking it up by saying "we were warned."
So this is why I asked you.
I ask, what is the impact of the carbon tax on this for you to say "we were warned"?
Or are you just talking it up?

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Well, it is all very general with no idea as to the impact of the carbon tax on all of this.
You were talking it up by saying "we were warned."
So this is why I asked you.
I ask, what is the impact of the carbon tax on this for you to say "we were warned"?
Or are you just talking it up?

We were warned that the carbon tax would impact on industry and jobs.
The hate media (the ABC in this instance ) have reported that the carbon tax has been blamed - in part - for a slump in manufacturing.

Do you trust the ABC for accuracy?
Perhaps you think PwC some right wing shill and that the PMI has somehow been fiddled to reflect the lowest in three years.

If you are interested, I have looked up their webpage for you to investigate, please let us know how you go.

http://www.aigroup.com.au/economicindicators/pmi/

 

[lionking]

What part? What percentage. And of course their evidence.
Can you supply evidence for this Alfie. Or is it just fear mongering and buck passing by this body.

Australian manufacturing in decline? Well bugger me and stop the presses.

The textile, clothing and footwear industry died in the 1970s, and guess what? The nation was better for it.

Steelworks started closing down in the 1980s. Car plants a little later. Jeez, we don't have coach builders and saddle makers any more!

Pretty powerful thing, this carbon price.

 

[Krikkiter]

Australian manufacturing in decline? Well bugger me and stop the presses.

The textile, clothing and footwear industry died in the 1970s, and guess what? The nation was better for it.

Steelworks started closing down in the 1980s. Car plants a little later. Jeez, we don't have coach builders and saddle makers any more!

Pretty powerful thing, this carbon price.

^^^ This...


"The contribution of manufacturing to Australia's gross domestic product peaked in the 1960s at 25%, and had dropped to 13% by 2001–2[1] and 10.5% by 2005–6[2]. In 2004–05, the manufacturing industry exported products worth $67,400 million, and employed 1.1 million people"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_Australia#History

 

[DC]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-01/manufacturing-slumps-in-july/4168832

A leading private index shows the Australian manufacturing sector slumped in July, with industry groups in part blaming the carbon tax.

The reports authors say wages and input costs, including the upstream impacts of carbon pricing, rose, while selling prices declined further.

The report suggests this indicates a limited ability for businesses to pass on carbon price cost increases to customers.

"Manufacturers are responding by reassessing and re-modelling their businesses but, as suggested by another drop in new orders and with the full impact of the carbon tax still to be felt, further falls in overall activity are likely in the months ahead."

Sigh. Only one month in and already we start seeing the negative and anticipated effects.

We were warned.

Meanwhile, New Zealand remain in reality and have abandoned entering a carbon market - not wishing to adversely affect industry and their economy. We can't even influence our closest and nearest neighbours, let alone the rest of the world.

eeerm Europe followed your leading example 8 years ago.

you talk like you are the only ones doing it. you are not.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

eeerm Europe followed your leading example 8 years ago.

you talk like you are the only ones doing it. you are not.

And how's Europe travelling financially?
How much is the carbon price?

 

[DC]

And how's Europe travelling financially?
How much is the carbon price?

so you admit that others do this since years and it was actually Australia that finally followed?

 

[Wildy]

so you admit that others do this since years and it was actually Australia that finally followed?

He'll admit it when he needs to and then go back to pretend that nobody but Australia is doing anything.

 

[Legend]

And how's Europe travelling financially?

Oh deary me.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

so you admit that others do this since years and it was actually Australia that finally followed?

Nope, you miss my point. The last time we went down this track we learned that Nowhere in Europe did any country have anything approaching the depth and breadth of Australia's tax. If they did, you would have actually provided the evidence.

 

[Hallo Alfie]

Oh deary me.

I agree: It's not good is it?
And no, I am not suggesting that the carbon price is responsible for all Europe's woes, but it certainly doesn't help.

 

[DC]

Nope, you miss my point. The last time we went down this track we learned that Nowhere in Europe did any country have anything approaching the depth and breadth of Australia's tax. If they did, you would have actually provided the evidence.

you got to be kidding me. even the US has a lower CO2 per capita than Australia, the only European country with more CO2 per capita than Australia is Luxembourg. And when you would compare fuel efficiency laws for cars Australia would again loose. in what exactly are you ahead? oh yeah, the price. well sure, you also have a lot to do to catch up with the rest of the world. had you done something earlier, you would not have to catch up now.

 

[wombatwal]

We were warned that the carbon tax would impact on industry and jobs.
The hate media (the ABC in this instance ) have reported that the carbon tax has been blamed - in part - for a slump in manufacturing.

Do you trust the ABC for accuracy?
Perhaps you think PwC some right wing shill and that the PMI has somehow been fiddled to reflect the lowest in three years.

If you are interested, I have looked up their webpage for you to investigate, please let us know how you go.

http://www.aigroup.com.au/economicindicators/pmi/

We knew the carbon tax was going to impact, not that we were warned except by the conservatives with shrill commentary about Whyalla closing down etc.
The link you supplied did not answer my question to you.

■ Survey respondents remained cautious about the outlook, citing
soft demand, the carbon tax, the strong Australian dollar and
import competition as inhibitors of activity.
■ Wages and input costs continued to rise in July, while the decline
in selling prices persisted, indicating that manufacturers’ profits
remain under pressure.

That is all I could find about the carbon tax, not much hey.
So I ask you again Alfie what is the impact of the carbon tax for you to make the statement "we were warned".
To me it meant something terrible has happened.
Can you enlighten us Alfie.

 

[DC]

looks like someone fled the thread for good.

 

[Wildy]

Just wait for the next Carbon Tax "story". Then he'll show up.