Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[johnny karate]

It seems clear to me there's multiple injuries and abrasions and marks, indicating multiple punches.

What evidence can you cite that Zimmerman had more than the four injuries documented in the medical reports?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

It seems clear to me there's multiple injuries and abrasions and marks, indicating multiple punches.

I while back I downloaded the entire 300 page first thread and started to read through it again. I kid not when I say it would make an excellent paper for a psychology student to dissect and write a thesis on.

What was especially fascinating was the progression of belief by those who were 100% certain that GZ is a lying murderer. Fist it was asserted that GZ was not injured at all. Once pictures came out that made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that GZ had self-injured himself in various ways. And once the on-site pictures and medical reports from the crime scene made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that the injuries were from "one punch". Personally I think they should go with the "GZ is a shape shifting alien" theory and avoid all this nonsense altogether.

 

[johnny karate]

I while back I downloaded the entire 300 page first thread and started to read through it again. I kid not when I say it would make an excellent paper for a psychology student to dissect and write a thesis on.

What was especially fascinating was the progression of belief by those who were 100% certain that GZ is a lying murderer. Fist it was asserted that GZ was not injured at all. Once pictures came out that made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that GZ had self-injured himself in various ways. And once the on-site pictures and medical reports from the crime scene made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that the injuries were from "one punch". Personally I think they should go with the "GZ is a shape shifting alien" theory and avoid all this nonsense altogether.

As trustworthy as your claims always prove to be, perhaps you could provide some quotes to support your allegations so we can see them in context.

Don't forget to add blue arrows so we're sure not to miss them.

 

[Moss]

I while back I downloaded the entire 300 page first thread and started to read through it again. I kid not when I say it would make an excellent paper for a psychology student to dissect and write a thesis on.

What was especially fascinating was the progression of belief by those who were 100% certain that GZ is a lying murderer. Fist it was asserted that GZ was not injured at all. Once pictures came out that made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that GZ had self-injured himself in various ways. And once the on-site pictures and medical reports from the crime scene made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that the injuries were from "one punch". Personally I think they should go with the "GZ is a shape shifting alien" theory and avoid all this nonsense altogether.

Your assertion that it has to have been more than one punch has exactly the same amount of evidence to back it up. That you pretend otherwise and use your assertions as jumping board to ridicule people that think the situation is ambiguous and not as clear as some here claim is getting mightily old. Especially when people change their opinions and theories based on available evidence. That you call that a progression of beliefs is nice, the old rhetorical trick on this board to paint someone you disagree with as a blind believer. Nice manipulative language you got there.
If you want to talk about theories without evidence you may as well talk about Cylinder's claim that it was an ambush. That assertion seems to be fine...

 

[triforcharity]

I keep asking the Trayvon Truthers here just how many times Zimmerman fell and hit his head from that single punch... apparently he is very clumsy!

Which has been answered a dozen times. I don't know of anyone that is actively participating in this thread that doesn't believe that a fight ensued.

What I, and others believe, is that the severity of the fight is embellished substantially, and that the injuries that Cylinder marked, are superficial at best, and some that I pointed out, are not proof of a fight, as they could be old.

But, you're welcome to continue going with the strawmen arguments if you'd like.

 

[triforcharity]

Just tell me how many times you think Zimmerman fell and hit his head from that single punch, to account for not only the injuries but the marks seen in the photos.

Proof that the marks in the photos are not dried blood and actual injuries, and also that some were not pre-existing.

Aaaaannnnnddddd......GO!

 

[triforcharity]

And once again you show you have no interest in anything but denial.

Just for the sake of argument, even you admit there's 2 cuts on the back of Zimmerman's head, correct?

And you ascribe both of them to a single fall?

It very well could come from one fall. Heads are hard and sometimes bounce.

But, you're welcome to attempt to deny that....

 

[katy_did]

What evidence can you cite that Zimmerman had more than the four injuries documented in the medical reports?

At the second bond hearing, O'Mara played a video of the walk-through in which one of the cops points out an area of swelling on the left side of Zimmerman's head and bruising on the right side of his head. Injuries to the back, left and right of his head seem unlikely to have come from a single punch.

 

[Dan O.]

And once again you show you have no interest in anything but denial.

I'm going to consider that attacking the arguer and stop responding to WildCat's posts. Perhaps this threat would be better off if it were moderated.

 

[Moss]

At the second bond hearing, O'Mara played a video of the walk-through in which one of the cops points out an area of swelling on the left side of Zimmerman's head and bruising on the right side of his head. Injuries to the back, left and right of his head seem unlikely to have come from a single punch.

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you for providing this and your reasoning.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Your assertion that it has to have been more than one punch

It seems as though your side rarely ever actually reads what's there and instead always reads a bunch of extraneous info into it. I commented on the progression of beliefs on your side, nothing more. Show me where I said it "has" to be more than once punch.

has exactly the same amount of evidence to back it up.

I suspect that most medical professionals would look at the pictures and say it's exceptionally unlikely that came from one punch, so I would say false to that. However I'm not a medical expert, so I won'y say it has to be more than once punch, but as a layman it seems exceptionally unlikely, until I hear otherwise from experts. Conversely, it sure as hell doesn't look like Trayvon connected with a lot of good punches as well (I prefer to acknowledge reality instead of stubbornly clinging to crazy positions)

That you pretend otherwise and use your assertions as jumping board to ridicule people that think the situation is ambiguous and not as clear as some here claim is getting mightily old.

Of course it's getting old, conspiracy theorists and irrational thinkers always hate being called out.

Especially when people change their opinions and theories based on available evidence. That you call that a progression of beliefs

You're joking right? That's the entire point, there has been 0 real progression of beliefs, just surface adjustments that allow their confirmation bias and base belief to remain in full force. The idea that GZ injured himself was ALWAYS absurd and inane, there didn't need to be a "progression" to know that. The evidence that the conman voice analysis guy was fill of crap was ALWAYS evident to anyone that had the slightest interest in the truth, we didn't need to hear the FBI say it to know that.

If you want to talk about theories without evidence you may as well talk about Cylinder's claim that it was an ambush. That assertion seems to be fine...

I've never said that your side is the only one coming up with crazy theories and I've knocked down more than a few on my side, most recently I disagreed with the attempt to characterize the accusations from GZ's cousin as "kissing cousins". As for Cylinders theory, I'll let him represent that and debate it with you. I will take a guess though and say his theory is likely something like "TM may have come back to confront GZ", I have a feeling the way you described it may not give the full picture.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I'm going to consider that attacking the arguer and stop responding to WildCat's posts. Perhaps this threat would be better off if it were moderated.

No doubt, because someone saying someone else is in denial is a vicious personal attack and demands that the thread be put on moderation.

 

[johnny karate]

At the second bond hearing, O'Mara played a video of the walk-through in which one of the cops points out an area of swelling on the left side of Zimmerman's head and bruising on the right side of his head. Injuries to the back, left and right of his head seem unlikely to have come from a single punch.

Two different medical professionals after two separate physical examinations did not note the specific injuries to which you refer.

How do you account for that?

And if a casual observation by a non-medical professional indicated less injuries than the medical reports, which would you believe?

 

[KatieG]

When you have many people on one side continually throwing out endless conspiracy theories and making things up*, it becomes hard not to use that type of language. Speaking of which, a while back you claimed that there was an ongoing investigation into GZ molesting his cousin. I saw several people ask you for a source for that statement, but strangely you ignored them all. Would you please provide us with that source?

*The two go especially well together, for instance, some first claimed GZ injured himself, then later claimed no one ever suggested any such thing.

I didn't see the requests, sorry. I don't have a link at this point since I didn't bookmark some of the pages. I will look elsewhere and see if I can dig it up.

 

[triforcharity]

At the second bond hearing, O'Mara played a video of the walk-through in which one of the cops points out an area of swelling on the left side of Zimmerman's head and bruising on the right side of his head. Injuries to the back, left and right of his head seem unlikely to have come from a single punch.

Which one are you referring to? Which day was it filmed?

I wonder why the PA that examined him didn't notice any swelling or bruising the next day?

 

[johnny karate]

Which one are you referring to? Which day was it filmed?

I wonder why the PA that examined him didn't notice any swelling or bruising the next day?

I'm guessing it was due to the lack of magic blue arrows that automatically and irrefutably render anything they point to an injury.

 

[crimresearch]

I while back I downloaded the entire 300 page first thread and started to read through it again. I kid not when I say it would make an excellent paper for a psychology student to dissect and write a thesis on.

What was especially fascinating was the progression of belief by those who were 100% certain that GZ is a lying murderer. Fist it was asserted that GZ was not injured at all. Once pictures came out that made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that GZ had self-injured himself in various ways. And once the on-site pictures and medical reports from the crime scene made that position no longer tenable, it was then asserted that the injuries were from "one punch". Personally I think they should go with the "GZ is a shape shifting alien" theory and avoid all this nonsense altogether.

If that's all that had occured here, I'd agree that it was simply human nature.

But add in the constant cycle of repeating things that have already been utterly debunked, and the projection involved in making a torrent of personal attacks while denying factual evidence, and then accusing those making rational posts of doing the same thing, and we've entered online role playing game territory...

(Since we dasn't accuse anyone of actually *believing* the conspiracy theory level stuff they post).

 

[katy_did]

Which one are you referring to? Which day was it filmed?

I wonder why the PA that examined him didn't notice any swelling or bruising the next day?

It was filmed the day they did the walk-through, and it was a part of the walk-through video which had been edited out (perhaps because it was at the beginning or the end of the walk-through). A female cop talks on the video about swelling and bruising on the left and right sides of Zimmerman's head; I think she actually points to an area on the left side of his head and says it doesn't look as swollen as it did the day before. It was around the time in O'Mara's presentation where he brought in the paramedic to talk about Zimmerman's injuries. There must be a video floating around somewhere?

No idea why the PA didn't mention it. I don't recall, did he or she mention bruising on the back of Zimmerman's head?

 

[Cylinder]

For those posters that are growing tired of denying discussing evidence, Frank Taffe was arrested for DUI this weekend.

Rare Truth in 3...2...1...

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

I'm guessing it was due to the lack of magic blue arrows that automatically and irrefutably render anything they point to an injury.

Who needs a gun or mace? I'll just carry a can of blue spray paint, and if I see someone 'acting suspiciously' I'll injure him all over...