Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[dafydd]

Wow. You said it, I believe it, that settles it.



Well, of course, you would know seeing as how you're qualified to say so.


Clearly I'm on ignore.

Quote.

 

[dafydd]

Look up a couple and we'll do the research.

You tell us. You made the claim.

 

[dafydd]

I think that scientology was put together as a means of extracting money from people. I don't think the world is crazy.

Ditto.

 

[Justinian2]

You tell us. You made the claim.

I told you, find two mass murders where the killer was not under some type of psychiatric care. I made this REAL easy for you. If I were you, I'd take up the challenge.

Even a monkey could probably beat me in this challenge.

I've already given you a whole list.

 

[marplots]

I told you, find two mass murders where the killer was not under some type of psychiatric care. I made this REAL easy for you. If I were you, I'd take up the challenge.

Even a monkey could probably beat me in this challenge.

Tim McVeigh, Hitler.

Did I win?

 

[Twiler]

I told you, find two mass murders where the killer was not under some type of psychiatric care. I made this REAL easy for you. If I were you, I'd take up the challenge.

Even a monkey could probably beat me in this challenge.

What evidence would indicate that they hadn't been under psychiatric care?

 

[pakeha]

What OT deaths?

Sorry not to be explicit, I thought you were aware we were discussing OTVIII, Lisa Ferguson, and Quentin Hubbard, who

...went to sea with Ron when he established the Sea Organization, living on the flagship Apollo and reaching the highest level of auditor training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Hubbard

 

[dafydd]

I told you, find two mass murders where the killer was not under some type of psychiatric care. I made this REAL easy for you. If I were you, I'd take up the challenge.

Even a monkey could probably beat me in this challenge.

I've already given you a whole list.

You made the claim, you provide the evidence otherwise it is just another one of your dubious sweeping statements. Cut out the insults, it really does make you look childish. Not a good advert for a supposed ''clear''.

 

[dafydd]

Sorry not to be explicit, I thought you were aware we were discussing OTVIII, Lisa Ferguson, and Quentin Hubbard

One can't blame him for avoiding the topic of the thread.

 

[dafydd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Hubbard

The damage that Scientology wreaks on it's victims. Sad.

 

[pakeha]

I think it must. If Scientology is a scam and a con, as has been repeatedly claimed in this thread, wouldn't you expect some beneficiary? Some person, perhaps David Miscavage?

If the money goes to the church (or largely so), how is that different than any other church? And if a poster thinks that all religions are scams and cons, that's fine, but why then point it out as if it were some unique feature of Scientology?

Hubbard is gone. The Freezone has emerged. It's as if you had Bernie Madoff in jail but then claimed investing in general is a scam and a con because of him.

These sorts of labels kill real criticism. Church members are deluded or brainwashed. The whole thing is a scam. Anything said in response would then be the results of brainwashing in service of a crime. No testimony could break through. ...

Well, you brought up the money angle, marplots, not me.
And of course, whenever there's a question of scamming or conning peole money, it's interesting to see just where the money goes.

What kind of testimony to the financial records of Scientology and Freezone would be adequate, do you think?
Court transcripts?
Court decisions?
Notarised transcripts of the book-keeping?

Where do you think is the best starting point to investigate Scientology's financial situation?

 

[Caper]

For example, before Scientology, I used to categorize every women as having the same set of characteristics. That's why I failed with them before Scientology. In Scientology I quickly learned that they are all quite different.

It seems to have worked well for Tom Cruise and L Ron.

 

[pakeha]

Here's marplot's post about the money trail:

Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
(snipped to get to this part)... CoS is designed and operated as a money making scheme, and any benefit derived by CoS participants is stricly coincidental.
Who gets the money?

I told you, find two mass murders where the killer was not under some type of psychiatric care. I made this REAL easy for you. If I were you, I'd take up the challenge.

Even a monkey could probably beat me in this challenge.

I've already given you a whole list.

Is this the sort of free-wheeling that auditors don't allow during a session?

 

[marplots]

Where do you think is the best starting point to investigate Scientology's financial situation?

Here's a good piece, maybe a bit dated:
http://spiffyd.com/blog/how-church-scientology-makes-500-million-every-year

More recent: http://www.businessinsider.com/scientology-is-biggest-religious-money-maker-2012-7

(I can't verify the stuff in those posts, but they seem to agree in general.)

And just to balance things out, a real scam involving Scientologists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Slatkin

Reed Eliot Slatkin (born January 22, 1949 in Detroit, Michigan) was an initial investor and co-founder of EarthLink and the perpetrator of one of the largest Ponzi schemes in the United States since that conducted by Charles Ponzi himself.

Slatkin was an ordained Scientology minister since 1975. Around 1984 he changed from being a full-time minister to becoming a self-employed investor, and many of his investment clients and victims were also Scientologists.

 

[ddt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUn37iHxNIg&feature=related

Ah, the docu where creepy Scieno Tommy Davis stalks the reporter and gets ripped one.

 

[dafydd]

Ah, the docu where creepy Scieno Tommy Davis stalks the reporter and gets ripped one.

Every Scientologist that I have ever seen has something creepy about them.
Do you recognize this weirdo?

 

[pakeha]

More on Quentin Hubbard who was a Class Twelve Auditor.
It's from an interview he gave:

Dennis Erlich: "Greetings from a Survivor / End of the Q."
DENNIS: "I see that you got some more reads on the 53 after it had FN'd." [swallowing] "How do you think this happened?"

QUENTIN: "I false reported." [still zooming his hand through the air]

DENNIS: "You... false... reported?" [beginning to stutter] "Uh-on the w-worksheets?" [knowing that this was one of the highest crimes an auditor could commit, and would require ethics handling and retraining "from the bottom up"]

QUENTIN: "Yea. I false reported that the 53 FNed." [this said as casually as if telling me he ate cereal for breakfast]

DENNIS: "Uh..." [struck with the import of the moment]

QUENTIN: "I always do."

DENNIS: "You mean..."

QUENTIN: "I mean I always false report when I have to FN a 53. I disagree with having to do that on PCs. It never does anything for the PC and it costs him hours of auditing. I think it's better to just false report and get on with it."

DENNIS: "?......." [dumbstruck]

QUENTIN: "I think a lot of my father's stuff doesn't work. So I false report whenever I need to. Personally, I think my father's crazy."

http://www.xenu-directory.net/victims/hubbard1.html

Could you explain what that means "..to FN a 53...", Justinian?

 

[ddt]

In every recent mass killing, you will find the perp. was under the care of a psychiatrist. How can someone get better if he sees a physiatrist and gets a prescription drug as the only therapy?

Evidence?

I see I'm late to the party, but: yes, it's your claim, you prove it. One counterexample is enough to show that a falsehood.

So, for a start, can you provide me the names of the psychiatrists of:

1) Pol Pot

2) All nineteen 9/11 perpetrators.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Evidence?

I see I'm late to the party, but: yes, it's your claim, you prove it. One counterexample is enough to show that a falsehood.

So, for a start, can you provide me the names of the psychiatrists of:

1) Pol Pot

2) All nineteen 9/11 perpetrators.

It's a trick. He specified that the mass killing had to be "recent".

In other words, he's seen in the news that the Batman guy was seeing a psychiatrist, and is now going to limit the definition of "recently" to include the Batman murders and only the Batman murders.

 

[dafydd]

Fred West
Doctor Crippen
Adolf Hitler
Attila The Hun
Peter Sutcliffe
Harold Shipman