Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[dafydd]

SP= Smart person who has seen Scientology for the crap that it is.

 

[dafydd]

Is it really a good idea to evade my questions and rail against Belgian justice?

Typical SP behavior. If you have no answers to questions, obfuscate. Not that he knows anything about the Belgian government, other than the fact that they have nailed a loony and dangerous cult.

 

[dafydd]

Belgium doesn't exactly practice freedom of religion.

Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult which damages vulnerable people.

 

[Justinian2]

Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult which damages vulnerable people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_in_Belgium

"For the last 10 years, the prosecutor has been using the media, trying to damage the reputation of the Church of Scientology and not being able to put a case in court," Scientology said. "As a consequence, this created a climate of intolerance and discrimination" in Belgium.[3]

Not only does the Belgium government discriminate, but they practice Goebbels type brainwashing and propaganda. Wonderful government this Belgium. Who's behind these idiocies?

 

[dafydd]

Not only does the Belgium government discriminate, but they practice Goebbels type brainwashing and propaganda. Wonderful government this Belgium. Who's behind these idiocies?

People who know that Scientology should be banned worldwide. The Scientologists are the past masters at brainwashing, Hubbard was very up front about that.

 

[Twiler]

Every sane person is are well aware that the Belgian government is a dangerous money making scam.

So, you don't think all governments are money making scams?

 

[Locknar]

Please keep your posts civil/polite, on topic, and address the argument vs attack the arguer.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar

 

[Justinian2]

So, you don't think all governments are money making scams?

Of course.

 

[Justinian2]

People who know that Scientology should be banned worldwide. The Scientologists are the past masters at brainwashing, Hubbard was very up front about that.

'People that know Scientology'. Who would that be? Would I be included in that attack?

All your comments are not only totally wrong, but the reverse of the truth.

 

[Twiler]

'People that know Scientology'. Who would that be? Would I be included in that attack?

All your comments are not only totally wrong, but the reverse of the truth.

Can something be totally wrong and not the reverse of the truth?

 

[Justinian2]

Can something be totally wrong and not the reverse of the truth?

Yes.

If you said that I said "Black is white" that would be wrong if I didn't say anything. However, it is the reverse of the truth to say black is white.

The effort of Scientology auditing is always to locate the brainwashing that has been done to a person and to ask the person if they want to keep their brainwashing induced decision or change it. Isn't this the opposite of brainwashing? Isn't this removal of brainwashing?

What I mean to say is that it is totally wrong to say that Scientology brainwashes people when the opposite is the truth.

 

[Myriad]

A reminder that this is not yet answered:

Sometimes OT phenomena are like the things that happen in Matrix.

So, OT's are just like those swarms of robot squids that attach themselves to hover-ships and cut through their hull with lasers?

Perhaps you could be more specific -- sometimes OT phenomena are like which things, specifically, that happen in The Matrix? One or two examples will do.

A lot of the benefit from the OT levels comes from the setups. Some comes from a feeling that you are less helpless to an understanding of the OT realm.

Good feelings can certainly be beneficial in some circumstances. But feelings occur in the mind. Are you again saying that OT abilities to be a cause over MEST occur only in the OT's mind?


ETA: I'm also still curious about what are the OT postulates that you mentioned before, and what does it mean to convert one into inspiration? An example or two would be very helpful for understanding what you meant there.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[dafydd]

What I mean to say is that it is totally wrong to say that Scientology brainwashes people when the opposite is the truth.

Wrong.
http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/brainwashing-manual.htm


''There have been a lot of studies done in medical journals on what were the breaking points of Korean prisoners of war. During the Sea Org era, especially, Hubbard was able to test each crew member for breaking points. He honed this to where he had it down to a fine art.

I have come to the conclusion that L. Ron Hubbard, Jr was used as one of Hubbard’s guinea pigs to test this premise of blows and obedience; that many of the lessons Hubbard learned from his experiments on his son were further implemented on the ship. Ron Jr was, in essence, a life-long “prisoner of war”; a prisoner of Hubbard and his organization’s machinations. Hubbard trained his troops to find a person’s breaking point, in order to bend him or her to his will. He had done this with his own son, early and continuously. While Ron Jr was not physically struck by his father, his weaknesses were exploited. When he virtually fled the organization in 1959, according to his account, he was hounded. Although he was out of the organization, his father retained the ability to manipulate him, even into changing his name. It is obvious to anyone who knows Ron Jr that he spent his whole life attempting to escape from the mental “prison” that his father had created for him.

The pressures of being a “number one son” of the “Savior of Mankind”, were perhaps reflected in what appears to have been the suicide – by an overdose of drugs – of Quentin, Hubbard’s oldest son by Mary Sue (Ron Jr’s half brother). Quentin’s body was found in a car near McCurran Airport in Las Vegas in early 1977. He went into a coma and died in a hospital after 14 days. He was 22 years of age. Some 18 months prior to that time, my wife – while taking a Scientology course in Daytona Beach, Florida, in 1975 – observed Quentin running away from his father, who was coming down on an elevator.

She describes his reaction upon discovering that Hubbard was on the elevator: “He paled dramatically and exclaimed, ‘Oh ****, it’s Dad, I’ve got to get out of here!’” He sprinted up several flights of stairs. He had previously confided in her that he desperately needed help regarding his problems with his father. She says his emotion was “terror”. She observed him again in early 1977, in Florida at the “Flag Land Base”, not long before his death, looking devastated, having again been placed in a “lowered ethics condition”. It does not appear to have been a wonderful gift of fate to have been born the oldest son of L. Ron Hubbard.''

 

[ddt]

'People that know Scientology'. Who would that be? Would I be included in that attack?

What about the French judge who convicted Scientology of fraud and just stopped short of banning it? (BBC, LA Times). And upheld on appeal (Fox).

 

[Justinian2]

Wrong.
http://www.anti-scientologie.ch/brainwashing-manual.htm


''There have been a lot of studies done in medical journals on what were the breaking points of Korean prisoners of war. During the Sea Org era, especially, Hubbard was able to test each crew member for breaking points. He honed this to where he had it down to a fine art.

I have come to the conclusion that L. Ron Hubbard, Jr was used as one of Hubbard’s guinea pigs to test this premise of blows and obedience; that many of the lessons Hubbard learned from his experiments on his son were further implemented on the ship. Ron Jr was, in essence, a life-long “prisoner of war”; a prisoner of Hubbard and his organization’s machinations. Hubbard trained his troops to find a person’s breaking point, in order to bend him or her to his will. He had done this with his own son, early and continuously. While Ron Jr was not physically struck by his father, his weaknesses were exploited. When he virtually fled the organization in 1959, according to his account, he was hounded. Although he was out of the organization, his father retained the ability to manipulate him, even into changing his name. It is obvious to anyone who knows Ron Jr that he spent his whole life attempting to escape from the mental “prison” that his father had created for him.

The pressures of being a “number one son” of the “Savior of Mankind”, were perhaps reflected in what appears to have been the suicide – by an overdose of drugs – of Quentin, Hubbard’s oldest son by Mary Sue (Ron Jr’s half brother). Quentin’s body was found in a car near McCurran Airport in Las Vegas in early 1977. He went into a coma and died in a hospital after 14 days. He was 22 years of age. Some 18 months prior to that time, my wife – while taking a Scientology course in Daytona Beach, Florida, in 1975 – observed Quentin running away from his father, who was coming down on an elevator.

She describes his reaction upon discovering that Hubbard was on the elevator: “He paled dramatically and exclaimed, ‘Oh ****, it’s Dad, I’ve got to get out of here!’” He sprinted up several flights of stairs. He had previously confided in her that he desperately needed help regarding his problems with his father. She says his emotion was “terror”. She observed him again in early 1977, in Florida at the “Flag Land Base”, not long before his death, looking devastated, having again been placed in a “lowered ethics condition”. It does not appear to have been a wonderful gift of fate to have been born the oldest son of L. Ron Hubbard.''

I attended a speech (in 1972) given by Dianna and Quentin when they were teenagers. It was very pro Scientology. They seemed too happy. I was just getting in to Scientology at the time and their confidence in and appreciation for Scientology was above and beyond my reality.

Years ago I read the book to which you refer. Even though the book was negative, there were positive implications that amazed me.

Anyway, all the negative things in the book have been removed from Freezone Scientology. In the Freezone we run out Scientology as part of the Freezone power processes. I never said that any organization, company or government was entirely good.

That website you showed me reminded me of the prosecution's case for sending the innocent to jail. The famous prosecutor joke is that anybody can be convicted, the innocent just take longer.

 

[Justinian2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifetimes

This is a link to Dianna Hubbard.

 

[Krikkiter]

I attended a speech (in 1972) given by Dianna and Quentin when they were teenagers. It was very pro Scientology. They seemed too happy. I was just getting in to Scientology at the time and their confidence in and appreciation for Scientology was above and beyond my reality.

Cool story. So what? Being amazed when you're young is evidence?

Years ago I read the book to which you refer. Even though the book was negative, there were positive implications that amazed me.

Please see above.

Anyway, all the negative things in the book have been removed from Freezone Scientology. In the Freezone we run out Scientology as part of the Freezone power processes. I never said that any organization, company or government was entirely good.

If they mentioned the small matter of using useless electronic gadgets to fleece then all the negative things were not removed. Did they mention electronic gadgets?

That website you showed me reminded me of the prosecution's case for sending the innocent to jail. The famous prosecutor joke is that anybody can be convicted, the innocent just take longer.

Delusions will get you nowhere.

 

[Krikkiter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifetimes

This is a link to Dianna Hubbard.

And what is that supposed to prove?

 

[dafydd]

And what is that supposed to prove?

Nothing.

 

[Krikkiter]

Nothing.

Not even that she was a decent singer.