Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

I think everyone can read the past two pages and see whether or not I'm telling the truth.

Or you could simply provide evidence for your claim. You have no problem quoting posts for other things. I didn't see any evidence in the last 2 pages. Put up or shut up, as they say.

IAre you denying that the family doesn't want to discuss it out of respect for the victims wishes?

No, I don't know the family's stance on this. And neither do you. Provide evidence the family isn't talking about this because of the victims wishes or admit you have made it up.

IJust a side note, aren't you the one that wanted the whole discussion about whether kids can be molesters split off to another thread? Forgive me if that wasn't you....

ETA: OK, well it's not exactly as I remember, you included an out into the suggestion:

Yes, because of this. It's a topic that makes take personally. I kept posting on it because you, chiefly, were posting so many straw men and so much incorrect information .

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You think she has a snowballs chance of getting out from under perjury?
...

Yes. So does her attorney, I assume, unless she just filed not guilty for the lulz ?

 

[Rare Truth]

And therefore, since it's a possibility, we must accept it as truth and hand wave away any of those nasty "George is a child rapist" thoughts from our beautiful minds.

So to recap all the things that happened to poor George in the last eight ten plus years:

1. He was accused of being a serial molester and rapist by his cousin.
2. His girlfriend got a restraining order against him for being violent.
3. He assaulted a DEA agent.
4. He conspired with his wife to hide $135,000 and a passport and got his wife charged with perjury.
5. And of course, the reason we're all here, he shot and killed an unarmed teenager who was walking home from the store, and claimed "self-defense" and that it was all god's plan.

Clearly, the only "naturally skeptical" view of any of this is to take him at his word and cast suspicion on the police and prosecutors.

Pow!

 

[a_unique_person]

Yes. So does her attorney, I assume, unless she just filed not guilty for the lulz ?

I am guessing she did what most guilty people do and is fighting the charges.

 

[Dancing David]

I agree. You, Dancing Davind, and myself, possibly others, saw it as downplaying it. "It's just harmless touching between kids".

You know who else claims that?

Creationists and global warming deniers!

 

[triforcharity]

Read this link, the whole thing. That is what I was taught in school, it's not uncommon at all.

Exploring of sexuality between kids is absolutely normal. Agree.

Exploring another person's sexuality, against their will, up into the mid to late teens, is rape/SB. Did you notice that this entire linked page was talking about two mutually agreeing kids? Nothing about it being non-consensual.

Note that I didn't recall hearing anything about force, but I'll take your word it was said. I find it far more likely that was just as exaggerated as the 'racism' charge.

Oh, you mean the racial profiling that is still being investigated? Cool.

If it wasn't, then I withdraw what I said, but due to various reasons, including the family,

The family what? What about them?

the mildness of what was described

You think that forcing a female who is in her mid to late teens to do sexual things with another person, against the girl's wishes, is mild?

and the fact it was never acted upon until much later, I think what was described was in fact normal.

I disagree. The fact that it wasn't acted on (meaning reported) is not unusual. In fact, it's quite common.

The fact it's not been charged (yet) and we're talking about Angela Corey is another reason to suspect there's nothing to this and should be put to rest.

I don't think Angela Corey would be the prosecuting attorney, but I could be wrong. Also, these type cases can take months to investigate. That is not unusual either.

What you're implying and your experience is nothing like what I was getting at. At any rate, this is why I brought it up, I think going from this to charges of rape and battery is an insult to actual victims of sexual predators like yourself and others. However it's how politics works these days so I understand why you and others went there.

Now I am out of here, hopefully you understand me better now.

But what has been alleged by W9, and what you're equating it with, is NOT the same. It's not innocent touching between kids. It's not harmless play between early teenagers. It's sexual battery. Period.

Sorry that you want to downplay it.

 

[triforcharity]

Yes. So does her attorney, I assume, unless she just filed not guilty for the lulz ?

How do you think that she's going to get out of this charge?

Her claim in court was "We have no money, and cannot afford a large bail."

Reality was, that she KNEW there was over $100,000 dollars in the PayPal account, because SHE was the one moving it around.

What would her defense be? I also don't see a snowballs chance in hell of her getting around this. Maybe accept a plea later down the road....but that's about it.

She cannot claim ignorance.
She cannot claim she didn't understand the judge's questions.
She cannot claim that the money was spent.
She cannot claim the money was pledged to something else.

She lied to the court. If there was every an open and shut case, this would be one of them. JMO.

 

[Rare Truth]

Daddy Zimmerman tells us about lil perverted George:

It was during these early years of George’s life that he grew to understand the requirement each of us have to be good citizens. This led to George becoming an altar boy in the Catholic Church, often serving alongside his older brother. George served as a dedicated altar boy for approximately eight years. Due to George being bilingual and very dedicated to the church, the priests offered him his first job, a receptionist at the church rectory.

http://robertandgladys.com/

Hmmmm. Some of it is beginning to make sense now.

 

[johnny karate]

Yes. So does her attorney, I assume, unless she just filed not guilty for the lulz ?

Maybe not so much for the lulz as for the fees.

But I am hard pressed to come up with a reason why you think the plea has any bearing on the chances of Zimmerman's wife beating the charge. (Spoiler alert: She won't.) I'm sure demonstrably guilty people claim innocence all the time. And considering that the underlying nature of her crime is dishonesty, it's not the least bit surprising she would continue in that vein and deny having been dishonest.

 

[Unabogie]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99916379/Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

From the document dump, page 138.

George's ex-fiancee says that George hit her in the mouth for chewing gum. Also that he was uber controlling.

Finally, she broke off the engagement because George had signed up on a dating website...while they were engaged to be married!

Wow, all this time I've been thinking he was a creepy guy with a propensity for violence and a habit of lying. I was wrong, and I apologize.

 

[johnny karate]

You know, I understand most of these things are just allegations and have not been proven - including the charge of second degree murder - but for Zimmerman to be just the victim of misfortune and malicious character attack, he would have to the unluckiest guy on the planet.

Let's run down the list (and feel free to add anything I've overlooked).

So far, we are to believe:

- Zimmerman didn't chase down, confront and unlawfully kill an unarmed teenage boy. Instead, Zimmerman did absolutely nothing wrong and was viciously set upon by this unarmed teenage boy, and had no choice but to shoot him.

- Zimmerman didn't assualt an undercover law enforcement officer. Instead, Zimmerman was just defending a friend, the undercover agent didn't identify himself, and the undercover agent lied about what happened in a sworn affadavit.

- Zimmerman wasn't violent with the ex-girlfriend who had a restraining order filed against him. Instead, she's just a spiteful liar.

- Zimmerman didn't sexually assault his cousin. Instead, she's just a spiteful liar.

- Zimmerman didn't intentionally defraud the court. Instead, he was just confused and fearful.

I'm not sure what the odds are for a regular, mild-mannered person to amass so many false accusations of such a serious nature. Speaking for myself, I've never been accused of anything remotely close to what's on that list. Neither has anyone I know.

So George Zimmerman is either a lot more sinister and loathsome than some people want to admit, or he is a monumentally unfortunate victim of circumstance worthy of an Alfred Hitchcock film.

 

[bookworm]

You know, I understand most of these things are just allegations and have not been proven - including the charge of second degree murder - but for Zimmerman to be just the victim of misfortune and malicious character attack, he would have to the unluckiest guy on the planet.

Let's run down the list (and feel free to add anything I've overlooked).

So far, we are to believe:

- Zimmerman didn't chase down, confront and unlawfully kill an unarmed teenage boy. Instead, Zimmerman did absolutely nothing wrong and was viciously set upon by this unarmed teenage boy, and had no choice but to shoot him.

- Zimmerman didn't assualt an undercover law enforcement officer. Instead, Zimmerman was just defending a friend, the undercover agent didn't identify himself, and the undercover agent lied about what happened in a sworn affadavit.

- Zimmerman wasn't violent with the ex-girlfriend who had a restraining order filed against him. Instead, she's just a spiteful liar.

- Zimmerman didn't sexually assault his cousin. Instead, she's just a spiteful liar.

- Zimmerman didn't intentionally defraud the court. Instead, he was just confused and fearful.

I'm not sure what the odds are for a regular, mild-mannered person to amass so many false accusations of such a serious nature. Speaking for myself, I've never been accused of anything remotely close to what's on that list. Neither has anyone I know.

So George Zimmerman is either a lot more sinister and loathsome than some people want to admit, or he is a monumentally unfortunate victim of circumstance worthy of an Alfred Hitchcock film.

This is a good post and very true. Some people are jerks who go through life easily making enemies and it appears that Zimmerman may be one of those jerks. I'm fully ready to believe that he is guilty of manslaughter. But so far, nothing concrete has come out to show me that he is. So far, everything I've seen says he's telling the truth about what happened that night.

 

[Draca]

Just remember they were both children at the time. I got beat up sometimes by other kids in the neighborhood, humiliated and injured at times. I'd run into them later in life and they turned out fine; I don't see the need to try to destroy their lives or dwell on it. They were children too, and what they did then should not destroy their lives. We need to keep that in mind, there's no comparison between this (even if absolutely true) and an adult authority figure sexually abusing someone. None.

At any rate if we start prosecuting people for sexual experimentation that amounts to touching when they were kids because one party years later become convinced they were 'raped' or 'molested' we will have the better part of a generation in jail. It's called hormones.

“Witness 9” accused Zimmerman of sexually molesting her
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/16/2897557/zimmerman-defense-attorney-will.html

“witness 9,” 26, called investigators several days after the shooting of Trayvon Martin to say that Zimmerman and his family were racists who disliked blacks. She also called the Seminole County state attorney about three weeks later with more-serious allegations:

1. When she was 6 - The children would hang out on sofas under blankets watching TV, and Zimmerman, she claims, would take the opportunity to fondle her and penetrate her with his fingers, even though there were other people in the room.

2. Every time the families visited, Zimmerman would grope her behind curtains and touch her inappropriately.

3. Once, when she was about 12, he allegedly made her rub his penis.

4. When she was 16 - he lay down next to her with an erection and began kissing her and rubbing her chest, but she got up and ran out. He chased her as far as the front door but no further.

5. When she was 20, she told her sister, and her sister told their parents.
Her parents had a meeting with Zimmerman at a restaurant. “He sat down at the end of the booth, said, ‘I’m sorry,’ and got up and walked out,” After that, Zimmerman was never invited to joint family functions.


Kaosium, I agree that when she was 6 and he was 8 they were both children. George was probably exploring, may have seen a porno and was curious or something.

At the age of 12 for her and 14 for him that is another matter. Twelve year olds regularly babysit younger children. There is no way they both didn't know what was going on. Now it could have been kissing cousins behaving badly, but according to her he made her do things she didn't want to do.

Then at ages 16 and 18 it finally ends after she runs for it.

One thing that gives Witness 9 credibility is that she brought other witnesses into it. She mentions her sister and parents. The whole family would be witnesses to GZ no longer being invited to family functions. That is a lot of people who would be able to vouch that this is not a new story from Witness 9. It is true that no one but Witness 9 and GZ really knows what happened between them.

If GZ's character is brought up in the trial she could be called as a witness. I would imagine her family could be called to corroborate her story at that point.

Do we use this information to judge GZ in relation to the TM case? There are character traits that are important to the conversation. If he forced his cousin into sexual situations she wasn't okay with he would need to hide it from the adults around them. He would present one face to the public of the family and another to his cousin. It would show he is deceptive.

We still don't know how the confrontation with TM began. According to GZ, TM was suddenly there. According to DeeDee GZ was following TM.

Witness 9 is yet another clue on how trustworthy GZ's version of what happened is.

 

[This is The End]

I kept posting on it because you, chiefly, were posting so many straw men and so much incorrect information .

Where is that irony meter smiley when I need it.

 

[This is The End]

Yes. So does her attorney, I assume, unless she just filed not guilty for the lulz ?

That could not be more enlightening to your thought process. You think she possibly will get out of perjury because her defense attorney thinks so.

Just wow.

 

[This is The End]

Daddy Zimmerman tells us about lil perverted George:

It was during these early years of George’s life that he grew to understand the requirement each of us have to be good citizens. This led to George becoming an altar boy in the Catholic Church, often serving alongside his older brother. George served as a dedicated altar boy for approximately eight years. Due to George being bilingual and very dedicated to the church, the priests offered him his first job, a receptionist at the church rectory.

http://robertandgladys.com/

Hmmmm. Some of it is beginning to make sense now.

Well, that explains everything.

 

[This is The End]

But I am hard pressed to come up with a reason why you think the plea has any bearing on the chances of Zimmerman's wife beating the charge. (Spoiler alert: She won't.)

Basically because the poster ridiculed you for claiming she didn't have a chance. And now the poster has to back it up.

 

[This is The End]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99916379/Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

From the document dump, page 138.

George's ex-fiancee says that George hit her in the mouth for chewing gum. Also that he was uber controlling.

Finally, she broke off the engagement because George had signed up on a dating website...while they were engaged to be married!

Wow, all this time I've been thinking he was a creepy guy with a propensity for violence and a habit of lying. I was wrong, and I apologize.

Sounds like a real stand up guy.

Of course instead of being 50/50 or so on each and every one of these claims we will be told that we should believe them about 0%.

So that means that out of a dozen claims, instead of at least a few of them probably being true, we should assume that 0 of them are probably true.

 

[This is The End]

You know, I understand most of these things are just allegations and have not been proven - including the charge of second degree murder - but for Zimmerman to be just the victim of misfortune and malicious character attack, he would have to the unluckiest guy on the planet.

Let's run down the list (and feel free to add anything I've overlooked).

So far, we are to believe:

- Zimmerman didn't chase down, confront and unlawfully kill an unarmed teenage boy. Instead, Zimmerman did absolutely nothing wrong and was viciously set upon by this unarmed teenage boy, and had no choice but to shoot him.

- Zimmerman didn't assualt an undercover law enforcement officer. Instead, Zimmerman was just defending a friend, the undercover agent didn't identify himself, and the undercover agent lied about what happened in a sworn affadavit.

- Zimmerman wasn't violent with the ex-girlfriend who had a restraining order filed against him. Instead, she's just a spiteful liar.

- Zimmerman didn't sexually assault his cousin. Instead, she's just a spiteful liar.

- Zimmerman didn't intentionally defraud the court. Instead, he was just confused and fearful.

I'm not sure what the odds are for a regular, mild-mannered person to amass so many false accusations of such a serious nature. Speaking for myself, I've never been accused of anything remotely close to what's on that list. Neither has anyone I know.

So George Zimmerman is either a lot more sinister and loathsome than some people want to admit, or he is a monumentally unfortunate victim of circumstance worthy of an Alfred Hitchcock film.

Great post.

Remember when someone proposed that Z was using code for the $ amounts and code for PayPal (Peter Pan) during the jailhouse calls, not to try and confuse the authorities, but that he was doing it to confuse the other inmates!

 

[Cylinder]

Of course instead of being 50/50 or so on each and every one of these claims we will be told that we should believe them about 0%.

So that means that out of a dozen claims, instead of at least a few of them probably being true, we should assume that 0 of them are probably true.

Rational thought at its finest. Geez.