Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

Teen-aged rapists and sexual molesters don't exist because Natural Born Skeptic has never heard of or read about them.

That's odd. According to Natural Born Skeptic the "cold hard facts" say that you might as well terrorize, rape, and molest your cousin during her entire childhood. As long as you are only a couple years older than her, no prosecutor would every charge you. Even if you don't stop until after you are an adult. Those are the "cold hard facts".

Did you have fun attacking your strawmen ?

 

[Unabogie]

Has any one stepped forward to help prove these allegations ? The sister, the parents ?

Have we been told about any evidence that exists that corroborates these allegations ?

Do we have any indication that law enforcement is investigating these allegations ?

Hasn't almost everyone agreed these allegations are irrelevant to the current crime ?

Yet you still insist on bringing this up. Why is that ?

Aren't all these questions relevant to the question of Trayvon being a burglar?

Has any witness stepped forward?

Do we have any indication that law enforcement pursued a case (well, prior to George shooting him dead)

Hasn't everyone agreed those allegations are irrelevant to the current crime?

Yet you and others insisted on bringing it up.

There's that nifty double standard, now employed for an accused child murdered and child rapist.

 

[Unabogie]

Or maybe it was just god's plan that the whole world found out George raped his cousin repeatedly over the course of a decade?



Allegedly.

 

[johnny karate]

Did you have fun attacking your strawmen ?

Yes, we should dispense with the straw man arguments.

Apparently, there are people in this thread who want to see the justice system subverted so that the accused are presumed guilty until proven innocent. Clearly, that is not at all a straw man and must be discussed thoroughly.

 

[Unabogie]

Yes, we should dispense with the straw man arguments.

Apparently, there are people in this thread who want to see the justice system subverted so that the accused are presumed guilty until proven innocent. Clearly, that is not at all a straw man and must be discussed thoroughly.

Wait, they know about our plot to subvert the justice system? Who's the mole????

 

[sgtbaker]

Aren't all these questions relevant to the question of Trayvon being a burglar?

Has any witness stepped forward?

Do we have any indication that law enforcement pursued a case (well, prior to George shooting him dead)

Hasn't everyone agreed those allegations are irrelevant to the current crime?

Yet you and others insisted on bringing it up.

There's that nifty double standard, now employed for an accused child murdered and child rapist.

If you can point out that it was wrong to bring up Trayvon's irrelavent crimes, yet you bring up Zimmerman's irrelavent crimes; it would appear that you think the double standard applies to you.

 

[Dan O.]

If you can point out that it was wrong to bring up Trayvon's irrelavent crimes, yet you bring up Zimmerman's irrelavent crimes; it would appear that you think the double standard applies to you.

Haven't you figured out yet that Trayvon is not on trial. He was not committing any crime, was not even in possession of any tools for committing crimes when George Zimmerman profiled, stalked and eventually shot and killed him. The questions of George Zimmerman's criminal past and attitudes towards other people is most definately relavent. At least it's relavent here if not in court.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Aren't all these questions relevant to the question of Trayvon being a burglar?

Has any witness stepped forward?

Do we have any indication that law enforcement pursued a case (well, prior to George shooting him dead)

Hasn't everyone agreed those allegations are irrelevant to the current crime?

Yet you and others insisted on bringing it up.

There's that nifty double standard, now employed for an accused child murdered and child rapist.

So you want to talk about TM possibly being a thief again in order to dodge answering the questions I asked ? Is that it ?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

For the strawman thinking challenged, here is the type of case we would have to find to show there is precedent for prosecuting this type of case:

1. The allegations would have to be 10+ years old.

2. The accused would have to have been a minor at the time the alleged assaults took place. And there would be NO accusations the assaults continued into the perpetrators adulthood ([insert strawman here in rebutal]

3. No sexual intercourse ever took place. Most of the encounters involved forced touching. [insert inane strawman here in rebuttal about how intercourse is not required for a molestation or rape claim].

So can anyone cite such a prosecution? I'm not saying it's never happened, but I've sure never heard of such a case.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Or maybe it was just god's plan that the whole world found out George raped his cousin repeatedly over the course of a decade?



Allegedly.

TM mother appears to agree that it was gods plan. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

So you want to talk about TM possibly being a thief again in order to dodge answering the questions I asked ? Is that it ?

Probably that, and he likes to make silly irrelevant comparisons.

 

[Cylinder]

He was not committing any crime...

Other than the aggravated battery which cost him his own life.

 

[triforcharity]

Other than the aggravated battery which cost him his own life.

Which there is no evidence of other than the word of GZ. We don't know WHO actually threw the first punch.

Also, it would have been simple battery, not aggravated.

Anyway, Happy Birthday Cylinder!

 

[sgtbaker]

Haven't you figured out yet that Trayvon is not on trial. He was not committing any crime, was not even in possession of any tools for committing crimes when George Zimmerman profiled, stalked and eventually shot and killed him. The questions of George Zimmerman's criminal past and attitudes towards other people is most definately relavent. At least it's relavent here if not in court.

I have figured it out, that's why I haven't mentioned it since way back when the news first mentioned it. My interest, in the allegation was not whether or not he was actually burglarizing someone's house that night. To me it was part of the whole narrative; the assertion that Zimmerman must have pursued and assaulted Trayvon because Trayvon is a good boy and would never instigate a fight, by grieving parents. Allegations of robbery tools, drugs, and "swinging on a bus driver," surfaced and all his social networking pages were swiftly shut down. It did seem to contradict the impression that we were given about Trayvon. However, since there is no evidence beyond posession of a screwdriver and unclaimed jewelry, or tweets, that pursuit of information has reached a dead end.

It still doesn't answer for using bringing one irrelavent accusation as justification for bringing up another irrelavent allegation and then accusing the first of expecting a double standard.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Haven't you figured out yet that Trayvon is not on trial. He was not committing any crime, was not even in possession of any tools for committing crimes when George Zimmerman profiled, stalked and eventually shot and killed him. The questions of George Zimmerman's criminal past and attitudes towards other people is most definately relavent. At least it's relavent here if not in court.

But the question of the persons past that GZ claims assaulted him is irrelevant. Got it! And as has been pointed out to you about 1000 times, IF he attacked GZ he most definitely was committing a "crime". You needn't worry yourself with such minor details or any pretense of objectivity though.

 

[Mumbles]

I have figured it out, that's why I haven't mentioned it since way back when the news first mentioned it. My interest, in the allegation was not whether or not he was actually burglarizing someone's house that night. To me it was part of the whole narrative; the assertion that Zimmerman must have pursued and assaulted Trayvon because Trayvon is a good boy and would never instigate a fight, by grieving parents. Allegations of robbery tools, drugs, and "swinging on a bus driver," surfaced and all his social networking pages were swiftly shut down. It did seem to contradict the impression that we were given about Trayvon. However, since there is no evidence beyond posession of a screwdriver and unclaimed jewelry, or tweets, that pursuit of information has reached a dead end.

It still doesn't answer for using bringing one irrelavent accusation as justification for bringing up another irrelavent allegation and then accusing the first of expecting a double standard.

There's a rather noticeable difference between burglarizing a house, and Trayvon's activities, which according to George's phone call with the police consisted of "walking around, looking about". George seems to realize this as well, which is why, in his walk through, he changes his story to Martin standing still and staring at a particular house.

And the evidence that George ran after Trayvon is, again, contained in his own police call, where he states that Martin "is running", immediately gets out of his car and begins running as well, and when asked if he's following, states "yeah". George, again, seems to realize that this is a problem, which is why he fabricates a story of him getting out to find an address due to the dispacher's repeated insistence on getting one. Although, oddly, he never did give that address to the dispacher.

The reason why people suspect that he assaulted Trayvon is simple - all known evidence shows that Trayvon wished to avoid George, and that George wanted to ensure that Trayvon didn't get away.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Which there is no evidence of other than the word of GZ. We don't know WHO actually threw the first punch.

And in the case of the alleged sexual assault/rape/whatever the appropriate charge would be, we have no evidence other than the word of the accuser.

At least in the TM case, we have evidence there was an altercation. In the other case, we don't have any evidence that anything even occurred, other than her word.

(and I am not accusing you of any particular position, triforcharity, just tagging on to your point about evidence.)

Anyway, Happy Birthday Cylinder!

Ditto.

 

[bookworm]

Aren't all these questions relevant to the question of Trayvon being a burglar?

Has any witness stepped forward?

Do we have any indication that law enforcement pursued a case (well, prior to George shooting him dead)

Hasn't everyone agreed those allegations are irrelevant to the current crime?

Yet you and others insisted on bringing it up.

There's that nifty double standard, now employed for an accused child murdered and child rapist.

By the same token, I would expect honest posters who derided the suggestion that Trayvon may have been burgling based on the lack of witnesses or investigation or valid evidence, to use their same judgment on the allegations of sexual abuse. Rather than jumping right in doing the same thing they just finished challenging other posters for doing.

Personally, I don't feel there's enough evidence to be sure Trayvon ever committed any burglaries and I don't feel there's enough evidence to call Zimmerman a rapist either.

 

[Unabogie]

TM mother appears to agree that it was gods plan. I don't understand why you keep bringing this up.

Because coming from the man who murdered the teenager, it was one of the most depraved and disgusting things I've ever heard?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Because coming from the man who murdered the teenager, it was one of the most depraved and disgusting things I've ever heard?

I wasn't a fan of what he said but I think you need to get out more if that's one of the most depraved and disgusting things you've ever heard.