Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[DuvalHMFIC]

Was this done to you?

Nope, I left long before it got to that point. But you know what? I'll drop my previous statement, because all I have to go by is the anecdotal evidence of a few who left the church-who may have an axe to grind.

 

[Justinian2]

So, did you lose money in a timeshare scheme?

No. But a Westgate timeshare scam and a con man killed my sister in law. Her death was induced by depression and exhaustion. She worked three jobs so a billionaire could legally fleece her.

I have been trying to sell the damn timeshare for a year.

 

[Twiler]

No. But a Westgate timeshare scam and a con man killed my sister in law. Her death was induced by depression and exhaustion. She worked three jobs so a billionaire could legally fleece her.

I have been trying to sell the damn timeshare for a year.

Is there anything that you object to which hasn't caused you personal harm?

 

[Justinian2]

How many hours do you reckon you've spent being audited over the years?

What do you think of the electrically induced endorphine response?
Could it account for the addictive nature of Scientology you mentioned here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8480854#post8480854

What do you think of the electrically induced endorphine response?

There is no sensation. Go around all day and holding both sides of a 1.5 volt battery and see if it makes you high.

One of my sons' friends used to take one of those joke pens that create quite a shock and held it to his head and heart. The kid was a nut job. He must have gotten a rush of some type.

Sorry, but an E meter does not provide any sensation by itself. But the question was sarcasm, was it not?

 

[hgc]

No. But a Westgate timeshare scam and a con man killed my sister in law. Her death was induced by depression and exhaustion. She worked three jobs so a billionaire could legally fleece her.

I have been trying to sell the damn timeshare for a year.

Justinian, this movie is for you: The Queen of Versailles

It's about the owner of Westgate and his nutjob wife and their absurdly sickening lifestyle. You will get so mad that Xenu will hear your screams in his electronic mountain trap. I think it's only playing NY/LA right now, but when it comes to Teegeeack, give it a watch.

 

[steve s]

The only place I have heard this story is from non-Scientology sources.

How 'bout a court of law?

Religious Technology Center director Warren McShane testified in a 1995 court case that the Church of Scientology receives a significant amount of its revenue from fixed donations paid by Scientologists to study the OT materials.[56] McShane said that Hubbard's work "may seem weird" to those that have not yet completed the prior levels of coursework in Scientology.[56] McShane said the story had never been secret, although maintaining there were nevertheless trade secrets contained in OT III. McShane discussed the details of the story at some length and specifically attributed the authorship of the story to Hubbard.[57]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Church_of_Scientology.27s_position


Steve S

 

[Justinian2]

Yeah, but you said the honest thing to do would be to withhold judgment Xenu and OT3 until you get there. Regardless of whether you pay $300K up front or over time, you'd still be a goof to withhold judgment about Xenu and OT3 until you get there. The OT3 materials are available for all to see and hear, for free, in Hubbard's own handwriting and voice. And it's not hard to judge either. There's nothing dishonest about evaluating and judging it.

When I was eight, I made a fleet of toy boats from scraps of wood. I painted them up nicely. I thought they were marvelous. I took them on a vacation to show my friend who had some model toy boats too. When I saw his professional quality toy boats, I became really embarrassed and never showed him my boats.

The point of this anectdote is that if you audit yourself in seclusion, you might think your technique is wonderful, but that doesn't mean it is.

Yes, Scientology is bogus, and yes, Scientology appears to be effective at brainwashing or otherwise convincing people to believe in bogus stuff.

Ironically, change the word Scientology to Society and you have expressed the reason why people became and remain Scientologists.

Yes, Society is bogus, and yes, Society appears to be effective at brainwashing or otherwise convincing people to believe in bogus stuff.

Of course you, as a fan of society, are going to be insulted that Scientologists think that most people are not even 20% clear (with 80% enturbulated theta)

 

[Justinian2]

And no, it is not nearly as much as you claim if you get the last half of your bridge in the Freezone (and you should).

 

[The Dark Lord]

And no, it is not nearly as much as you claim if you get the last half of your bridge in the Freezone (and you should).

Still a complete waste of money given you use the same garbage made up by a failed sci-fi writer turned successful conman.

 

[marplots]

How 'bout a court of law?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Church_of_Scientology.27s_position
Steve S

McShane said that Hubbard's work "may seem weird" to those that have not yet completed the prior levels of coursework in Scientology.

I think we've already seen that in this thread.

 

[Chris L]

I think we've already seen that in this thread.

It only sounds weird because it is weird. Again, an origin story (which is what the Xenu nonsense is) that sounds like pulp sci fi will be thought of as pulp sci fi. It's only after investing years of your life (and 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars) that this stuff might make sense in the "if it doesn't, I've wasted lots of time and money on this nonsense" kind of way. Even then, it might not make total sense (Tom Cruise's initial reaction to the Xenu story was "WTF is this science fiction BS!"). So yeah, I can see how talking about your past lives while attached to a galvanometer for years might wear down your critical thinking skills enough to be "enlightened" by such a fairy tale.

 

[Justinian2]

Again I say that Scientologists are Scientologists because we believe that everybody needs to be clear.


As Ben Franklin said:

Mankind naturally and generally love to be flatter'd: Whatever sooths our Pride, and tends to exalt our Species above the rest of the Creation, we are pleas'd with and easily believe, when ungrateful Truths shall be with the utmost Indignation rejected. "What! bring ourselves down to an Equality with the Beasts of the Field! with the meanest part of the Creation! 'Tis insufferable!" But, (to use a Piece of common Sense) our Geese are but Geese tho' we may think 'em Swans; and Truth will be Truth tho' it sometimes prove mortifying and distasteful.

 

[The Dark Lord]

Society only sounds weird because it is weird. Again, an origin story (which is what the Darwin nonsense is) that sounds like government propaganda will be thought of as government propaganda. It's only after investing years of your life (and paying 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars in taxes) that this stuff might make sense in the "if it doesn't, I've wasted lots of time and money on this nonsense" kind of way. Even then, it might not make total sense (Ben Franklins's initial reaction to the Democracy story was "WTF is this democracy fiction BS!"). So yeah, I can see how talking about democracy while attached to a government for years might wear down your critical thinking skills enough to be "enlightened" by such a fairy tale.

lol

 

[AdMan]

Society only sounds weird because it is weird. Again, an origin story (which is what the Darwin nonsense is) that sounds like government propaganda will be thought of as government propaganda. It's only after investing years of your life (and paying 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars in taxes) that this stuff might make sense in the "if it doesn't, I've wasted lots of time and money on this nonsense" kind of way. Even then, it might not make total sense (Ben Franklins's initial reaction to the Democracy story was "WTF is this democracy fiction BS!"). So yeah, I can see how talking about democracy while attached to a government for years might wear down your critical thinking skills enough to be "enlightened" by such a fairy tale.

Oh, boy. What a load of crapola.

 

[Myriad]

"You think the Xenu story is weird? I'll show you weird. Benjamin Franklin and the origin of the U.S. Constitution!"

Seriously, this shift-the-problem-to-something-else magic trick might work once or twice in a thread, but Justinian has now used it about ten times.

The best part of the story is when Benjamin Franklin flew the Founding Fathers to Boston in spaceships and blew them up with thermonuclear tea bombs. Oh, wait, that didn't happen? I guess the Xenu story is a lot more implausible and pulp-SF-like then.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[hgc]

When I was eight, I made a fleet of toy boats from scraps of wood. I painted them up nicely. I thought they were marvelous. I took them on a vacation to show my friend who had some model toy boats too. When I saw his professional quality toy boats, I became really embarrassed and never showed him my boats.

The point of this anectdote is that if you audit yourself in seclusion, you might think your technique is wonderful, but that doesn't mean it is.

His boats were real. Auditing is fantasy.

Ironically, change the word Scientology to Society and you have expressed the reason why people became and remain Scientologists.

Yes, Society is bogus, and yes, Society appears to be effective at brainwashing or otherwise convincing people to believe in bogus stuff.

Of course you, as a fan of society, are going to be insulted that Scientologists think that most people are not even 20% clear (with 80% enturbulated theta)

No, it doesn't work the same way if you substitute "society." Maybe if you substitute "Unification Church" or "Jehovah's Witness," it works.

 

[hgc]

Seriously, this shift-the-problem-to-something-else magic trick might work once or twice in a thread, but Justinian has now used it about ten times.

Scilons do that all the time. They must be drilled in that in PTS/SP, otherwise known as how to shatter suppression through distraction.

Hey! Look at that chicken in that tree!

 

[Halfcentaur]

This is starting to get disturbing.

 

[devnull]

if you know anything about timeshare resales you'll know that they are sub worthless as investments

Really? A friend has one, and resales of time in the same complex consistantly are worth much more than he paid a few years ago....

Do you often make snap pronouncements and expect them to be taken as gospel?

 

[marplots]

This is starting to get disturbing.

I agree. What's the game?

Am I correct in assuming there is an underlying track that denies spirituality wholesale?