General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Charles Traynor]

What a load of tosh. Literally nobody has defended Zisblatt. Links or withdraw your claim forthwith. Thread search tool works perfectly well so pony up proof or stfu.

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry. Your JREF collegues tactic of smothering revisionist arguments in broadsweeping BS and insinuating all critical thinkers are anti-Semites is an attack on freedom of speech.

Why are you backing those liars Nick?

 

[Nick Terry]

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry. Your JREF collegues tactic of smothering revisionist arguments in broadsweeping BS and insinuating all critical thinkers are anti-Semites is an attack on freedom of speech.

Why are you backing those liars Nick?

No, YOU need to use the search function, because YOU made the assertion that people here had defended Zisblatt, but posted absolutely no proof of this. It seems that you forget that whoever makes a positive claim has the burden of proof.

On this one, I get to play the denier.

 

[A'isha]

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry. Your JREF collegues tactic of smothering revisionist arguments in broadsweeping BS and insinuating all critical thinkers are anti-Semites is an attack on freedom of speech.

Revisionist arguments come pre-smothered in BS.

 

[TSR]

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry.

While we, to a person, suggest that *you* made the claim, so it is up to *you* to show that you weren't lying.

That you refuse to do so shows that you know that you were.

Your JREF collegues tactic of smothering revisionist arguments in broadsweeping BS and insinuating all critical thinkers are anti-Semites is an attack on freedom of speech.

Really?

Because it seems to be an exercise of that very right.

Unless you, like your heroes, take the position that only speech with which you agree should be protected...

Why are you backing those liars Nick?

I have never yet seen Nick back a denier.

 

[Charles Traynor]

What prompts you to call Straw Man's sharing of his experiences with us fiction? What do you know about Straw Man and those with whom he spoke?

My guess is that you know nothing - and once again, out of hand, you dismiss with a one-liner what doesn't match your rather pedestrian biases and what you, plagued by your ignorance and intellectual laziness, can't comprehend. That's my guess. That you know nothing and can't apply reason and knowledge to what Straw Man shared.

Lemmy, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you pulled up on the old RODOH forum about a story concerning a fictitious relative of yours who was supposedly held by the Germans in a POW camp somewhere inside the Reich?

 

[TSR]

Lemmy, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t you pulled up on the old RODOH forum about a story concerning a fictitious relative of yours who was supposedly held by the Germans in a POW camp somewhere inside the Reich?

RODOH. RODOH.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that where you fantasized about your corespondents being hung on The Day Of The Rope?

And where you first started lying about that movie you were making for release Real Soon Now -- that's been what? Five? Six years ago now?

 

[Nessie]

Charles Traynor, when you make claims of people here showing support for Irene Ziblatt, please evidence such. Please link me to one post by each of those people you accuse of supporting her.

 

[Cyrix686]

I do not recall anywhere here defending Irene Zisblatt to "the bitter end." Charles Traynor, I am more than happy with Dr. Neander's well thought out balanced and thoroughly researched piece upon Irene Zisblatt at Holocaust Controversies.

 

[Nessie]

.....

The very fact that JREF exterminationists chose to engage in shenanigans over that liberation topic rather than discussing it in an honest and forthright manner will have given the attentive reader some very big clues regarding the integrity of those who defend the holocaust lie here at JREF. The regular labelling of holocaust revisionists as anti-Semites is another questionable tactic and a means of attempting to silence those who question the official version of WWII history. Have you people no shame?

.....

The problem for Holocaust deniers is that they either come out with anti-semitic remarks or they associate with known anti-semites. Holocaust deniers are themselves to blame for what you say is a questionable tactic.

Saying someone is an anti-semite is not the same as trying to silence those who do question official history of the Holocaust.

Have you no shame making repeated claims without linking to evidence?

 

[Nick Terry]

Many readers of this thread will have heard of Bradley Smith, head of CODOH, the Orwellian-named Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust, which routinely censors opposing views on its forum.

B.S. is now well into his 80s, and has fought off cancer in recent years; it now transpires that the cancer is back, and that he also had a mild stroke recently. His doctors have not given him more than 4-5 months to live. Full details in the latest issue of 'Smith's Report'.

This news comes soon after reports that two other prominent Holocaust deniers, the onetime Stalinist-turned-Muslim convert Roger Garaudy as well as the far-right printer/publisher Anthony Hancock, both died in recent months.

Garaudy died aged 98, and was long overdue to shuffle off this mortal coil, having lived a life of cleaving to spurious ******** - Stalinist Marxism, Islam and Holocaust denial. Hancock I can almost respect, because he just sold books to credulous idiots whose politics he shared. His brand of neo-Nazism is now utterly marginal in the UK and will forever remain so. I feel sorry for Bradley Smith's family having to watch him suffer with cancer.

I don't feel sorry for the Holocaust denial movement, who are about to lose one of their few remaining figureheads. The rest of the people associated with CODOH are faceless drones, tedious bores or obnoxious a-holes. The simple fact is, there is a serious dearth of 'talent' in the denier scene, and I use 'talent' in its loosest possible sense. B.S. never wrote anything of any substance and simply rode on denial's coat-tails as a way of getting attention for himself, after failing miserably as a writer. It will be interesting to see whether he garners any obituaries and to see how many column inches 25 years' worth of grandstanding antics are actually worth. I'm confident there will be fewer than when Robert Faurisson finally shuffles off - yet in both cases the obituaries will have to conclude that both men have utterly failed in their life's work.

 

[Charles Traynor]

Charles Traynor, when you make claims of people here showing support for Irene Ziblatt, please evidence such. Please link me to one post by each of those people you accuse of supporting her.

Nessie, you joined in with the chants of anti-Semite and all the other obscuration tactics involved in drowning out the truth concerning Zisblatt’s lies.

If the cap fits wear it. You are a liar!

 

[Nick Terry]

That's four posts Fish has made since being challenged to provide a source for his claims in which he has not provided any such thing. I suggest we keep a running score.

 

[Belz...]

I can understand why zealots like TSR, Belz...

Now, where does this come from ? How, exactly, am I a zealot ? I'd like to know because this is actually the first time anyone has labeled me that, and I find it amusing to no end.

would choose to defend Zisblatt to the bitter end.

Who the **** is Zisblatt, and how am I defending him/her/it, especially to the bitter end ?

 

[Belz...]

Alright, I’ll play along with this.

What part of the British army was your uncle a member of? Please be specific.

What Waffen SS units were they in combat with just prior to the liberation of the camp?

I’m sure you will agree these are very simple questions you should be able to answer, I look forward to your speedy reply.

See, this is why we call you guys deniers.

 

[Marras]

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry.

Yet again I fail at google use and can't find the defenders of Zisblatt. As you apparently can, could you please post the links?

 

[Belz...]

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry. Your JREF collegues tactic of smothering revisionist arguments in broadsweeping BS and insinuating all critical thinkers are anti-Semites is an attack on freedom of speech.

Why are you backing those liars Nick?

Ah, so much wrong in such a short post.

1) Collegues ? You seem to think this forum is some sort of organisation.
2) I assume you reply this because you cannot find any citation to support you libelous claim.
3) Critical thinkers ? You have no knowledge of the period of history in question and you act as though you know more than all historians in the world. You call this beign critical ?
4) Of course they are anti-semites. Find one who isn't one.
5) How is that an attack on freedom of speech ?

 

[Belz...]

Nessie, you joined in with the chants of anti-Semite and all the other obscuration tactics involved in drowning out the truth concerning Zisblatt’s lies.

If the cap fits wear it. You are a liar!

As usual, another poster who seemed a bit more reasonable at the beginning has shown his true colours. You are a liar who cannot support his wild claims, an ignorant (by your own admission) who doesn't know history, and an ideologue who labels his opponents with made-up terms. Notice nowehere in my list do I include you actually providing evidence.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The subject of, Irene Zisblatt, the diamond girl of Auschwitz, also came up at this time, and although I already understood JREF members are not critical thinkers by any stretch of the imagination, I was shocked by the degree of their conformist mindset and reluctance to explore new holocaust knowledge.

Despite the fact Zisblatt had been previously exposed as a liar and several links were left to reputable Websites debunking here ridiculous claims, JREF exterminationists continued to defend her unconditionally. Solidarity in her defence only collapsed when one renegade Believer, LemmyCaution, had the integrity to admit Zisblatt was full of BS.

What a load of total crap. We have been over and over Zisblatt in this forum, many times. Try the search "post" function - and you will get 265 hits for Zisblatt. And I am not aware of anyone "defending" this troubled, dishonest individual. I believe I've read a post or two from people, unfamiliar with Zisblatt, who doubt deniers' statements about her based on their track records as blatant liars. Kind of a "boy who cried wolf" moment for you guys - everyone is shocked when you call one even partially right. But I don't recall any defenses of her book or claims.

OTOH, no one

1) has used Zisblatt as evidence for anything (except as a negative example of the lies, tall-tale, and fantasies troubled people, like the "stolen valor" types in the US, will tell)

2) cited Zisblatt in making an argument about Auschwitz or other aspects of the Holocaust

3) has given credence to her story, let alone defended it "unconditionally" or to the bitter end.

4) urged, in view of her lying, she should be subjected to special treatment (although I wouldn't put it past some people)

5) demanded that, because her story is fantasy, she be prevented from speaking (except you guys)

6) has advocated acceptance of her story despite its flaws (rather many of us have referred to Joachim Neander's deconstruction of her tale and reconstruction of what may have happened in her life)

I am not a renegade because 1) there is no orthodox behavior from which to dissent, 2) I am far from the only person amongst the non-deniers saying Zisblatt's story is untrue (in fact, I only encountered Zisblatt via HD debates - and my statements about her are based on Joachim Neander's article), and 3) there is no accepted Zisblatt narrative that is part of the evidence for the Holocaust.

So, Mr Traynor, unless you can produce posts supporting your claims, you owe a number of forum members an apology.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Alright, I’ll play along with this.

What part of the British army was your uncle a member of? Please be specific.

What Waffen SS units were they in combat with just prior to the liberation of the camp?

I’m sure you will agree these are very simple questions you should be able to answer, I look forward to your speedy reply.

Why on god's green earth should anyone be expected to answer these simple questions?

Who were the commandants of the Soviet and British-American sections of the Stalags at Fallingbostel? Another easy question, but I can't answer it. My being able to answer it would presume that the person who told me about these camps recalled, that I thought to ask this bit of information, and that if I asked it or it was mentioned when I was told about these camps I now recall it. My being unable to answer this question in no way disproves that someone told me about his experience in one of the camps at Fallingbostel.

If you think otherwise, you are wrong and rather deluded.

Your test of lying is as flawed as your knowledge of Spielberg's films and as blatantly silly as your attempt to retreat from your lies about Spielberg when you got spanked for them.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I suggest you use the search tool and refresh your own memory Dr Terry. Your JREF collegues tactic of smothering revisionist arguments in broadsweeping BS and insinuating all critical thinkers are anti-Semites is an attack on freedom of speech.

Why are you backing those liars Nick?

You made the false claim. You produce the posts that support you. It's not Nick's task to defend your attempted and dubious hatchet job: that's your responsibility, and I see even you running from doing so.