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Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

The Dark Lord said:
So your answer is that you don't believe in Xenu but believe other Scientology dogma invented by the very same person because you've seen the explanations and you just know they are right?
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Other than knowing something is right, what method would you suggest?

I'm very curious how you would conclude something was true knowing it was incorrect or not knowing at all.
 
Justinian2 said:
The code of an auditor is that he does not EVALUATE or INVALIDATE. When I was on my internship many moons ago, I did neither and got good results. With my children too, I've have good results prefering to listen than to interject any evaluation or invalidation.

Point out a person on these threads that listens and duplicates without evaluation or invalidation and I'll show you a good potential auditor.

On the other hand, a good auditor does not continue the session if the Emeter needle and other manifestations indicate that the person has an upset that he doesn't wish to discuss. Since auditing doesn't work if a person doesn't communicate his areas of pain and upset, it would be folly to continue. The session is ended and the PC is sent to the examiner. The PC folder is sent to the case supervisor. This is, perhaps, an unavoidable invalidation.
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Is this supposed to answer my question?

It seems you are saying you don't wish to discuss your anger or your 40 years of lost wages.

You just won yourself some new thetans!
 
marplots said:
Other than knowing something is right, what method would you suggest?

I'm very curious how you would conclude something was true knowing it was incorrect or not knowing at all.
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Reality is testable, belief is not.
 
Justinian2 said:
The difference is that the bullbaiting is done untill flat. Each insult is continued until flat. It's not usually a real insult either. It's usually something that will make you laugh. It could be something like: "Bet you thought that mustard stain was stylish?". It would be repeated over and over until the guy doesn't smile or flinch.

Bullbaiting is not like a bunch of bullies saying: "You're an idiot", "You're wrong.", "You wasted your life.", "You're a freak", etc. Eventually bullies cause someone to snap. We see it happening in the news all the time.

Boy, bullbaiting is usefull in session. You don't know how many times I wanted to laugh at something the PC said. We are taught to smile when we should, but not to laugh if it would evaluate or invalidate.
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Let's see some examples, then, of people who have been harmed by bullying and/or nasty criticism from skeptics (whether because they "snapped" or otherwise), as you've claimed. If it's happening on the news all the time, such examples should be easy to find.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Chris L said:
Reality is testable, belief is not.
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And if you tested it to your satisfaction and knew it was correct? Would that be enough justification to believe it was correct?

What are we to make of people who tell us they "know something is right?"
 
Justinian2 said:
LRH sometimes went into the stream of consciousness mode in his lectures. It caused us to think and free associate.

Then there was policy and procedure. Auditors were supposed to know and follow procedure. If the PC didn't have arms and hands, we could have had the PC put his feet on flattened cans. As I don't know the context of your quote, I can only guess as to LRH's intent.

I have disagreed with LRH. Even in disagreement, he always caused me to think and associate.

The Scientology Saint Hill Special Briefing Course is HUGE. It's like studying the Encyclopedia Britanica. When people take the course they see all the data and understand the evolution of the ideas and principles. Your biases would probably prevent you from reading any of it.
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"My biases"? How can you draw such a conclusion? I own and have read LRon's seminal work, Dianetics - A Book I wrote One Weekend, and I have read a lot more about the CO$ and similar cults.

IF I am biased, in is a result of education, not an arbitrary position.

How do you know when LRon was streaming his consciousness (and since when was "consciousness" part of Scientology?) and when he telling the revealed words of Xenu (or Zenu)?

You sound like an SP to me. Are you Squirrelly?

And, since Fred seems to have been recalled to the Mother House, I'll ask you the question I could never get him to answer -- SHOW ME A DIANETIC CLEAR.

:hit:
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
"My biases"? How can you draw such a conclusion? I own and have read LRon's seminal work, Dianetics - A Book I wrote One Weekend, and I have read a lot more about the CO$ and similar cults.

IF I am biased, in is a result of education, not an arbitrary position.

How do you know when LRon was streaming his consciousness (and since when was "consciousness" part of Scientology?) and when he telling the revealed words of Xenu (or Zenu)?

You sound like an SP to me. Are you Squirrelly?

And, since Fred seems to have been recalled to the Mother House, I'll ask you the question I could never get him to answer -- SHOW ME A DIANETIC CLEAR.

:hit:
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Why isn't Justinian Clear? After all those years and all those dollars you'd think he'd have that hostility under control.
 
Justinian2 said:
How did you disbelievers get the enormous insight to see things and pattern that mere High IQ society people have missed?Did God give you these tremendous gifts?
Did your mother and father give you some really fantastic advice?
Were you born with an intelligence gene that doesn't show up on standard IQ tests?
Do you think that being with peers that think the way you do makes you right? You know, a majority rules type of thing?

Any true skeptic would give cogent reasons.
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They know the patterns, but they ignore them in favour of what they want to believe. You don't need anything special to see the patterns.
 
The CCHR was started by Scientology. They try to promote awareness of violence caused by psychiatric medications.

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

James Holms was on Vicoden.

Side-effects of hydrocodone/paracetamol are most commonly upset stomach, nausea, and altered mental states (e.g., dizziness, light headedness). Other rarer side-effects include allergic reaction, seizures, clammy skin, paranoia, hallucinations, severe weakness, dizziness, hyperventilation, unconsciousness, jaundice (yellowing of eyes or skin), unusual fatigue, bleeding, bruising, stomach pain,[3] constipation, dry mouth, decreased appetite, muscle twitches, sweating, hot flashes, itching, tinnitus, hearing loss, decreased urination and altered sex drive. Vicodin also has depressant effects on the central nervous system, which may cause irritability. However, some of the less mundane effects can be desirable effects that are sought after by some. Those effects include euphoria and drowsiness, as well as slowing of the pulse.
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Justinian2 said:
The CCHR was started by Scientology. They try to promote awareness of violence caused by psychiatric medications.

http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/

James Holms was on Vicoden.
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I don't understand the reference. Is the claim that Vicodin is a psychiatric drug?

I used the search function on that site (http://www.cchrint.org/psychdrugdangers/drug_warnings.php) and it wasn't listed under either vicodin or hydrocodone. If you have information that Holms was motivated in his attack by Vicodin, I would be interested in looking at it.
 
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Orphia Nay said:
Is this supposed to answer my question?

It seems you are saying you don't wish to discuss your anger or your 40 years of lost wages.

You just won yourself some new thetans!
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I get angry from time to time as do all sane people. I don't stay angry long because I prefer other emotional states.

I haven't had 40 years of lost wages. I spent my 1973 income on Scientology, but live so cheaply that year with other Scientologists that I actually ended the year with a tax refund that put me financially ahead. In the prior year I spent my entire income at bars, on women, on cars and on a nice apartment.

What I've paid into Scientology in the Freezone is only a small portion of the amount my investments have earned.

You're wrong again.
 
tsig said:
Why isn't Justinian Clear? After all those years and all those dollars you'd think he'd have that hostility under control.
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The massacre at the Colorado movie theater is an example of something that makes me angry. It would be an unhealthy sign to be unaffected by events at the movie theater or 911.

Likewise it would be unhealthy to have long term continuous hostility directed at innocent people.

Your remark shows signs of hostility. Why are you so stressed out?
 
tsig said:
Why isn't Justinian Clear? After all those years and all those dollars you'd think he'd have that hostility under control.
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This is an attack on me, not my message. There are other similar attacks by others on this poster that also don't address the message.

I have had struggles in my life. My life hasn't been free of strife, but I'm happy with it. That's the point, isn't it? After all, I'm not living my life for your satisfaction.

Into every Clear's life, a little rain must fall. Tom Cruise just had some problems. Utopia can be approached, but not obtained.

Clear also can be approached, but never completely obtained on this planet.
 
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Justinian2 said:
Into every Clear's life, a little rain must fall. Tom Cruise just had some problems. Utopia can be approached, but not obtained.

Clear also can be approached, but never completely obtained on this planet.
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In other words, they're absolutely no different than everyone else on the planet.

Steve S
 
marplots said:
And if you tested it to your satisfaction and knew it was correct? Would that be enough justification to believe it was correct?

What are we to make of people who tell us they "know something is right?"
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If what they "know" is testable by the rest of us and our tests prove it wrong, then they are wrong.As an example, if you (like Steve Jobs) "know" that a special diet will take away your cancer, and it doesn't (in his case, it didn't), the rest of us "know" you are wrong. Reality will not bend to your belief system.
 
steve s said:
In other words, they're absolutely no different than everyone else on the planet.

Steve S
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Everybody's different. People are fat and thin, short and tall, talkative and quite, good and bad, happy and depressed, smart and ignorant.

It's true, however, that people aren't significantly different from many others to be worth a billion dollars or to be admired as stars.
 
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