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On Consciousness

Is consciousness physical or metaphysical?

  • Consciousness is a kind of data processing and the brain is a machine that can be replicated in othe

    Votes: 81 86.2%

  • Consciousness requires a second substance outside the physical material world, currently undetectabl

    Votes: 3 3.2%

  • On Planet X, unconscious biological beings have perfected conscious machines

    Votes: 10 10.6%
  • Total voters
    94
  • Poll closed .
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So,
If a computer can be conscious, what happens when it is unplugged or has its battery removed? It doesn't die. It can be plugged in again.

Perhaps electrons are the source of its consciousness?
 
quarky said:
After all these pages in this thread, what have we learned about consciousness?
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In point of fact, I have learned a ton. You could devote an entire college course to covering what I have learned in just the consciousness threads of these forums over the last 4 years, and it wouldn't be enough time.

But here is the thing, quarky -- the amount learned is directly proportional to the amount of information provided in order to debunk the woo claims people make.

By arguing why people like you are just wrong, and including references to back it up, forum members are doing a great deal to educate others. By trying to figure out why your woo is woo, I have learned so much about science that I would say my life is genuinely better because of people like you.
 
I'm woo?

How odd.

Care to link to anything woo I've ever written here, in any thread?
 
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Conscious effort. Apparently that's an illusion. Yet I see your post and see the edit tab to back it up. Weird.
 
Most of my 'transcendental' experiences on psychedelics are staggeringly close to carl sagans explanations of the fourth dimension.

 
quarky said:
So,
If a computer can be conscious, what happens when it is unplugged or has its battery removed? It doesn't die. It can be plugged in again.

Perhaps electrons are the source of its consciousness?
Click to expand...

No. It's the process. The fact that it can be turned on and off changes nothing. In fact, the brain can also be turned on and off.
 
tsig said:
Then what does determine what the colors actually look like?
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I still think that's rather mysterious -- yes, a hard problem.

But there is a clue you can perceive when you try to describe a color. When I read your question, I looked at a purple ruler on my desk and attempted to put into words what that purple color actually looked like. Try it for yourself. Look at a really saturated color right now and try your best to put into words exactly what it looks like and you'll notice yourself doing something interesting.

I know qualia aren't limited to colors. I get a special feeling when I see the combination of colors of Jamaica. Or, when I hear a chord played on a Hammond B3 organ through a Leslie speaker. Or smell the perfume used by the last person I truly loved. Are all these qualia? Can the brain concoct an infinite variety of qualia type?

It's too glib to say our minds are incomputable because we are not cold and heartless like mechanical wind-up toys. Why do we think we can intuit what subjective experience can or cannot emerge from 100 trillion synapses firing away every second after years of interacting with our world?
 
Mr. Scott said:
It's too glib to say our minds are incomputable because we are not cold and heartless like mechanical wind-up toys. Why do we think we can intuit what subjective experience can or cannot emerge from 100 trillion synapses firing away every second after years of interacting with our world?
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Interesting point - even 100 trillion synapses firing away every second after years of interacting with our world have difficulty intuiting what subjective experience can or cannot emerge from them...
 
quarky said:
So,
If a computer can be conscious, what happens when it is unplugged or has its battery removed? It doesn't die. It can be plugged in again.

Perhaps electrons are the source of its consciousness?
Click to expand...

It dreams of electric sheep.
 
PixyMisa said:
Thanks, yes, that's a fine example of woo.
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Mr. Scott's two main hallmarks of woo ideas, conjectures, hypotheses or claims:

1) Complete absence of evidence.
2) Complete absence of yield.

While the hallmarks don't prove any specific woo ideas to be false, they tend to strongly suggest they are unworthy of serious attention.

So, regarding the quantum mechanical, electromagnetic column, carbon-based, metaphysical, spiritual, dark matter sourced, or any other substrate-specific hypotheses of consciousness, I have yet to see any evidence or useful yield.

Reports of personal experience are not evidence! "Whoa, see how the universe looks kinda like nerve cells" is not evidence! Feeling one with the universe when on acid is not evidence! Etc., and so on, and so forth. (and their only yield, so far, has been, "Whoa, that's heavy, dude!" and that doesn't rescue anything from the woo zone).
 
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rocketdodger said:
In point of fact, I have learned a ton. You could devote an entire college course to covering what I have learned in just the consciousness threads of these forums over the last 4 years, and it wouldn't be enough time.

But here is the thing, quarky -- the amount learned is directly proportional to the amount of information provided in order to debunk the woo claims people make.

By arguing why people like you are just wrong, and including references to back it up, forum members are doing a great deal to educate others. By trying to figure out why your woo is woo, I have learned so much about science that I would say my life is genuinely better because of people like you.
Click to expand...

I've also learned a lot in the past 4 years here, but I was referring to this thread in my objection. To me, its a philosophical debate.
Maybe you're just having a bad hair day, and I'll let it go at that.
 
quarky said:
I've also learned a lot in the past 4 years here, but I was referring to this thread in my objection. To me, its a philosophical debate.
Maybe you're just having a bad hair day, and I'll let it go at that.
Click to expand...
Well, one side (the computationalists, and Jeff Corey) is discussing science. The other side is doing anything in their power to avoid discussing science, which makes for rather a skewed dialogue.
 
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