Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Unabogie]

Deranged thinking? Why exactly do you think he went from "White" to become the "White Hispanic" and "Zimmerman, whose father is WHITE and whose mother is Hispanic", in the MSM, as well as newcomer to the MSM, Fox News? In case you haven't noticed, the MSM and progressives in general are anti-white male. From yesterday, Harry Reid who is white, but has to be anti-white to appeal to his base:

MAJORITY LEADER HARRY REID: If this flood of outside money continues, the day after the election, 17 angry old white men will wake up and realize they’ve just bought the country.

http://freebeacon.com/reid-angry-white-men-trying-to-buy-the-election-for-romney/

As has been pointed out over and over, our half-white president is never referred to as the WHITE African-American. Why do you think that is? This whole story started out as a white giant killing a little black boy, so the "white" had to be kept alive somehow when the "little boy" turned out to be 6'2". (The coroner's measurement was length, not height. His mother has said he was 6'2", or maybe 6'3"...I don't recall exactly.)

Do you recall the judge at the first hearing asking O'Mara, "Where's Zimmerman?", when he was standing right next to O'Mara in prison garb? He was looking for the white guy and didn't see him.

IMO, if Ziimmerman's name was Jorge Meza, no one outside of Florida would have ever heard of this case, because Crump's gigantic disinformation campaign with his ever ready MSM stooges would have never been put into operation.

Freebacon is one Teabaggery pile of mess, eh?

For the record, Trayvon Martin was 5'11".

[ETA: And just to clear up more about size: Trayvon weighed 158 lbs and George weighed 204 lbs, which is a difference of 46 lbs. And George is 5'7 1/2 ", which is a difference of 3+ inches. So yeah, compared to George, Trayvon had no physical advantage at all, except for his magic MMA powers and natural athleticism (well don't they all have that?)]

And in his official doctor's report, from his own personal doctor, he is listed as "white". Which means that came from a form that George filled out himself, since everything your doctor has on you comes from those forms.

So George calls HIMSELF white. Or did, until he wanted to absolve himself of a murder charge.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You clearly take issue with how Judge Lester worded his order, and believe he made inappropiate statements that unfairly disparaged Zimmerman.

I'd simply like to know what specific law or legal guideline you believe Judge Lester violated that gives you justification for your belief.

You're simply wrong, johnny karate. I used a particular part of the ruling as evidence to show why I disagreed with the notion that Lester 'gave GZ every benefit of the doubt'. That's it.

It has nothing to do with unfairly disparaging GZ - it has to do with making a sound valid argument:
GZ did not turn in a passport
GZ moved money between accounts
GZ was ordered to wear an ankle monitor
therefor
GZ intent to leave the country was thwarted.

I disagree that it is possible for Lester to reasonably draw that conclusion from the information he had.

Prior to that, I don't recall complaining or otherwise really being concerned with judge Lester.

As for the legal guidelines Judge Lester has violated ... I believe the defense filed a motion to remove Judge Lester ? They must believe he violated some guidelines ... why don't you just assume I agree with what they wrote and then you can explain to me why and where their motion is wrong and how it will fail.

 

[johnny karate]

The rest of the shpeel in that post is, in one word: ridiculous.

It's so sad that some people are still clinging to the "It's all Crump's fault!" meme. As if Crump were some Machiavellian figure engineering Zimmerman's downfall from the shadows.

At this point, the only person engineering Zimmerman's downfall is Zimmerman. Crump hasn't been a factor in months.

I'm betting right now, the Zimmermanistas are desperately wishing for the days when the most controversial thing about this case was the media reporting Zimmerman as white.

 

[Dancing David]

You seem a little bit conflicted about this. One one hand, you will call it sexual assault but here, it sounds like you are saying this is not uncommon. Is it really not uncommon for 8 year olds to sexually molest each other? By 8, a child should have a pretty good grasp on personal boundaries. When these personal boundaries are ignored, it is usually indicative of a problem.

I don't think you understood what I posted. I said that sexual behavior is children is common, sexual assault (non-legal) is not uncommon amongst children.

Children are sexual, period.

Much of the strawmen around here are composed of incredulity that children are sexual.

Now is a 8 year old legally capable of committing sexual assault, that is a legal question and therefore harder to parse.

I do know of small children <6 yo who were sexually 'perpetrated upon' by older sibling's ranging from 8-19 , now some of those legally are not going to be 'sexual assault' but they left deep trauma in the victims.

The main issue is again that there are some people being total jerks in this thread about a very serious issue and that legal definitive and common usage vary considerably.

An 8 yo may commit sexual assault but not be culpable.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Here's a strange quote from the Miami Herald story:


So GZ thinks nobody would care if a Hispanic shot and killed an unarmed black teenager? Or a Hispanic would never do it except in extreme self-defense? Or the criminal justice system is more lenient with Hispanics than whites(!)? Or people would assume it was some kind of gang turf war? Or what? Does "Jorge" really think he's in jail because people think he's white?
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/16/2897557/zimmerman-defense-attorney-will.html

I haven't made it through all of the posts so others may have already responded to this but I think it's funny you make 4 or 5 suggestions instead while ignoring what was probably meant. I think the point is that very early on this was turned into a "white on black" crime, because that fanned the flames to the MAXIMUM, had it been a Latino on Black crime it would have been a very different political football and would have been presented and perceived differently by many.

 

[Ammonitida]

Freebacon is one Teabaggery pile of mess, eh?

For the record, Trayvon Martin was 5'11".

[ETA: And just to clear up more about size: Trayvon weighed 158 lbs and George weighed 204 lbs, which is a difference of 46 lbs. And George is 5'7 1/2 ", which is a difference of 3+ inches. So yeah, compared to George, Trayvon had no physical advantage at all, except for his magic MMA powers and natural athleticism (well don't they all have that?)]

And in his official doctor's report, from his own personal doctor, he is listed as "white". Which means that came from a form that George filled out himself, since everything your doctor has on you comes from those forms.

So George calls HIMSELF white. Or did, until he wanted to absolve himself of a murder charge.

He listed himself as "Hispanic" on his old My Space account (created way before Martin's death). Having used My Space before myself, I know that there exists an option for white that is separate from hispanic. Yet Zimmerman chose "hispanic" as his ethnic identity. So at times, he thought of himself as non-white and this had nothing to do with the murder charge.

 

[GWCarver]

Freebacon is one Teabaggery pile of mess, eh?

For the record, Trayvon Martin was 5'11".

[ETA: And just to clear up more about size: Trayvon weighed 158 lbs and George weighed 204 lbs, which is a difference of 46 lbs. And George is 5'7 1/2 ", which is a difference of 3+ inches. So yeah, compared to George, Trayvon had no physical advantage at all, except for his magic MMA powers and natural athleticism (well don't they all have that?)]

And in his official doctor's report, from his own personal doctor, he is listed as "white". Which means that came from a form that George filled out himself, since everything your doctor has on you comes from those forms.

So George calls HIMSELF white. Or did, until he wanted to absolve himself of a murder charge.

I don't know what "freebacon" is. You do realize you're calling TM's mother a liar. Why would you do that?

 

[johnny karate]

You're simply wrong, johnny karate. I used a particular part of the ruling as evidence to show why I disagreed with the notion that Lester 'gave GZ every benefit of the doubt'. That's it.

It has nothing to do with unfairly disparaging GZ - it has to do with making a sound valid argument:
GZ did not turn in a passport
GZ moved money between accounts
GZ was ordered to wear an ankle monitor
therefor
GZ intent to leave the country was thwarted.

I disagree that it is possible for Lester to reasonably draw that conclusion from the information he had.

Prior to that, I don't recall complaining or otherwise really being concerned with judge Lester.

As for the legal guidelines Judge Lester has violated ... I believe the defense filed a motion to remove Judge Lester ? They must believe he violated some guidelines ... why don't you just assume I agree with what they wrote and then you can explain to me why and where their motion is wrong and how it will fail.

I don't recall claiming the motion was wrong. I'm just asking you to substantiate your claim by providing legal foundation for it.

And you seem to be betting all your chips on the defense's motion as well.

Good luck with that.

 

[GWCarver]

WildCat is #1: on record as saying that 7 year olds have no sexual desires and therefore cannot be molesters.

WildCat is #2: Completely ignoring the fact that the molestation continued until one or more of the two were adults.

Make that "alleged". George is 28 and she is 27.

Let me ask you a question. If your 7 year old was "playing doctor" with a 6 year old relative, would you call the police?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I said that sexual behavior is children is common

Define sexual behavior and define common.

sexual assault (non-legal) is not uncommon amongst children.

Define sexual assault among children and define not uncommon.

Children are sexual, period.

Define sexual.

I don't really expect you to qualify each of those statements, this thread isn't the place for it, I'm just pointing out that you're engaging in some vast generalities which gives you wiggle room ("children are sexual", "not uncommon") the size of the grand canyon.

 

[johnny karate]

I don't know what "freebacon" is. You do realize you're calling TM's mother a liar. Why would you do that?

That's right, Unabogie.

Unless Martin's mother knew his exact height and weight at the time of his death, she is a liar.

There is no other option.

So you have called her a liar.

Check and mate.

 

[Unabogie]

Make that "alleged". George is 28 and she is 27.

Let me ask you a question. If your 7 year old was "playing doctor" with a 6 year old relative, would you call the police?

No, only if it continued for ten years and she considered it rape.

 

[GWCarver]

That's right, Unabogie.

Unless Martin's mother knew his exact height and weight at the time of his death, she is a liar.

There is no other option.

So you have called her a liar.

Check and mate.

I see. I'm reading into your response TM had shrunk since she last saw him. To me, that sounds unlikely.

 

[johnny karate]

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice for the Zimmerman Fan Club:

At this point, we don't know the veracity of these sexual abuse charges, or what they will amount to.

But until we do, maybe back off slandering the alleged victim or arguing the semantics of what entails sexuals abuse among children.

Because going that route - no mater how this turns out - makes you look like a jack ass.

 

[GWCarver]

No, only if it continued for ten years and she considered it rape.

The alleged victim said they never had intercourse.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I don't recall claiming the motion was wrong.

You didn't, I made an assumption based on you wanting to know what specific law or legal guideline you believe Judge Lester violated" that you don't believe he did anything wrong.

I'm just asking you to substantiate your claim by providing legal foundation for it.

I have not made any claims that require a legal basis. Quote my claim that I made that you think requires legal justification ?

And you seem to be betting all your chips on the defense's motion as well.

Good luck with that.

Instead of pointing out that the defense has already filed a legal motion, you think I should try to make my own legal arguments ?

You are usually willing to participate in a reasonable discussion. I don't understand why you appear to be intentionally misunderstanding things in this one.

 

[GWCarver]

Here's a nickel's worth of free advice for the Zimmerman Fan Club:

At this point, we don't know the veracity of these sexual abuse charges, or what they will amount to.

But until we do, maybe back off slandering the alleged victim or arguing the semantics of what entails sexuals abuse among children.

Because going that route - no mater how this turns out - makes you look like a jack ass.

Well, I think suggesting that little kids 6 or 7 years old "playing doctor" is a crime is nonsense, especially when they are doing in in a room full of people.

Zimmmerman has denied the allegations, so who is slandering whom is a matter of opinion.

 

[sgtbaker]

I don't think you understood what I posted. I said that sexual behavior is children is common, sexual assault (non-legal) is not uncommon amongst children.

Children are sexual, period.

Much of the strawmen around here are composed of incredulity that children are sexual.

Now is a 8 year old legally capable of committing sexual assault, that is a legal question and therefore harder to parse.

I do know of small children <6 yo who were sexually 'perpetrated upon' by older sibling's ranging from 8-19 , now some of those legally are not going to be 'sexual assault' but they left deep trauma in the victims.

The main issue is again that there are some people being total jerks in this thread about a very serious issue and that legal definitive and common usage vary considerably.

An 8 yo may commit sexual assault but not be culpable.

I have not once suggested that an 8 year old cannot sexually assault though. I do not think that is true. I think state of mind is clearly different between an 8 year old and an adult, they probably don't know the severity of forcing a sexual act on someone else but that makes it no less sexual assault.

Don't deny that children are sexual beings. They are and they learn, early on, about gratification. That is all very normal. What is not so normal is an 8 year old not understanding your private parts and mine. That is not normal and that kind of hypersexuality is indicative of a disorder or experiencing some kind of sexual misconduct.

 

[Rare Truth]

He listed himself as "Hispanic" on his old My Space account (created way before Martin's death). Having used My Space before myself, I know that there exists an option for white that is separate from hispanic. Yet Zimmerman chose "hispanic" as his ethnic identity. So at times, he thought of himself as non-white and this had nothing to do with the murder charge.

Yes, he listed that on the Ethnicity question. He answered: Latino / Hispanic.

You understand Ethnicity is not the same thing as race, right?

 

[Rare Truth]

The alleged victim said they never had intercourse.

However, he did penetrate her.