Scientology abandoned by Hubbard's granddaughter & Miscavige's father

[Halfcentaur]

Haven't we all?

I have noticed that most SP's have no power. Their words don't effect me.

If the SP is a judge, a politician a police officer, or a boss and they are in a position to cause me harm, then they can hurt me. Wasn't Hitler in a position where he could cause us harm?

Today, most dumb SPs will get thrown out of their organization before they cause harm. They call it sexual harassment, bullying or assault. Today people are more aware of the dumb SP.

I don't think you can actually make such clear cut judgements about "types" of people myself. I think the whole system is nothing more than terms that are just vague and universal enough to seem profound for people seeking some kind of truths within human experience.

But I'm reminded of Hubbard's words about how rare he considered "SP"s.

In a lecture he made on 19 July 1966, L. Ron Hubbard expressed concern about the possible abuse of the SP label in respect of those who are otherwise good citizens and contribute to civil society:

You should upgrade your idea of what an SP is. Man, meet one sometime! A real one! A real monster.... Well, in all the time we've been around here we only had one SP that I know of. One real SP that was on staff.... And I don't know of another single SP that we've ever had on staff. Isn't that interesting. You see all these SP orders and so on... Don't throw it around carelessly, because this is an--a very exaggerated condition, SP.

 

[Halfcentaur]

I just learned what an SP is watching the leaked Tom Cruise Scientology interview.

 

[Orphia Nay]

What you pay for. A few years ago a colleague of mine at a company I worked for claimed he was looking for something spiritual and started getting into Scientology. He went to a couple of services and some of his Co$ friends took to picking him up at work to go to these services.

At that point, I sat him down and really explained what the Co$ was all about, that it was started as a way for LRH to get rich real quick, and that it was a scheme to get him to spend lots of money buying their material. He didn't buy it first, but a couple of weeks later and what I can only assume was a couple of hundred dollars later, he thanked me and dropped out.

If only Tom would sit down with me for a bit.

Well done, SG.

 

[Duffy Moon]

That Freezone stuff costs nothing?

Freezone isn't free.

 

[Justinian2]

I don't think you can actually make such clear cut judgements about "types" of people myself. I think the whole system is nothing more than terms that are just vague and universal enough to seem profound for people seeking some kind of truths within human experience.

But I'm reminded of Hubbard's words about how rare he considered "SP"s.

A SP is obvious after he's done his damage.

Wouldn't you like a way of becoming suspicious of an SP before he causes you harm? Once suspicious, you become more aware of the facts that will prove whether or not someone is an SP. However, one shouldn't rush to judgment. If you rush to judgment, you may become the SP.

I always err on the side of mercy. I would rather allow myself to be hurt a little than to declare someone an SP who isn't.

Besides, you keep your friends close, but your SP's closer - that's a paraphrase.

 

[Orphia Nay]

A SP is obvious after he's done his damage.

Wouldn't you like a way of becoming suspicious of an SP before he causes you harm? Once suspicious, you become more aware of the facts that will prove whether or not someone is an SP. However, one shouldn't rush to judgment. If you rush to judgment, you may become the SP.

I always err on the side of mercy. I would rather allow myself to be hurt a little than to declare someone an SP who isn't.

Besides, you keep your friends close, but your SP's closer - that's a paraphrase.

SPs sound like cooties.

 

[sadhatter]

Because of the stuff described in "What is Scientology" and other reasons.

I, like a lot of people that enjoy the Freezone, don't like organizations. The Freezone isn't an organization so much as a movement.

It's pirated scientology, i feel the same way about it as when someone pirates the latest conspiracy video then tells me how great the producer is. The producer intended you pay, you circumvented this, that isn't a plus for the religion/philosophy it is a minus to you for stealing.

 

[Justinian2]

It's pirated scientology, i feel the same way about it as when someone pirates the latest conspiracy video then tells me how great the producer is. The producer intended you pay, you circumvented this, that isn't a plus for the religion/philosophy it is a minus to you for stealing.

Quote from Wikipedia:

In the United States, all books and other works published before 1923 have expired copyrights and are in the public domain.[40] In addition, works published before 1964 that did not have their copyrights renewed 28 years after first publication year also are in the public domain, ...​

Some of the Scientology materials have expired copyrights. However, they are still not republished by the Freezone, just used.

Furthermore a process cannot have a copyright, therefore you can't copyright the methods of Scientology.

Really, who would want to copyright a religion?

People in the Freezone do charge fees for their services and time. Who doesn't?

No, it isn't pirated scientology. Books aren't being resold. The processes are being used as was the intent.

 

[Halfcentaur]

Back in the late 80s my dad was sitting on the couch when that commercial for Dianetics came on, the booming voice calling out the name of the book while a volcano exploded on the screen. It seemed to play all the time, all day, for over a year.

One day, while my dad was on the couch watching Donahue, I saw the commercial and wondered out loud what this book was.

My dad chuckled and told me he'd read it earlier in his life, and if I ever met someone talking about that book to be careful of them because they were probably full of *beep*.

 

[hgc]

No, it isn't pirated scientology. Books aren't being resold. The processes are being used as was the intent.

It may in line with the intent of copyright law, I don't know. But, I can assure you it's not in line with LRH's intent. He intended to make money every single time someone touched his ideas (such as they are). If your freezoners aren't sending their commissions up-lines to the capo de tutti capi, then they are SP, baby. You've opted out of this sector of the universe.

 

[Justinian2]

The Freezone should hold the right to Dianetics via the Dianetic Auditors Association. Somehow the church scooped it back up by deceiving some stupid government bureaucrat.

These rights are tenuous at best.

 

[Justinian2]

Back in the late 80s my dad was sitting on the couch when that commercial for Dianetics came on, the booming voice calling out the name of the book while a volcano exploded on the screen. It seemed to play all the time, all day, for over a year.

One day, while my dad was on the couch watching Donahue, I saw the commercial and wondered out loud what this book was.

My dad chuckled and told me he'd read it earlier in his life, and if I ever met someone talking about that book to be careful of them because they were probably full of *beep*.

Nobody knows for certain how David Miscaviage became dictator and chief profiteer of Scientology. It happened right after the government threw Hubbard's wife in jail for spying on the FBI to learn about the FBI's plans to infiltrate Scientology.

Who knows, the Freezone may be the legitimate heir to Scientology.

 

[Halfcentaur]

Why do you find it necessary in your life to rely on some arbitrary system of thinking someone made up, Justinian?

 

[Justinian2]

Why do you find it necessary in your life to rely on some arbitrary system of thinking someone made up, Justinian?

Because tested and true principles are hardly arbitrary.

Why should you rely on some arbitrary system of thinking some government made up and teaches everybody? I don't.

Do you really need to be governed?
Do you really need to be taught?
Does school do any good?

It's good to learn how to read and write, but does anybody really communicate or learn anything?

Do you rely on any previous education other than the rudaments of speech, writing and arithmetic?

You sound like someone that doesn't think that there is anything to learn.

 

[hgc]

Nobody knows for certain how David Miscaviage became dictator and chief profiteer of Scientology. It happened right after the government threw Hubbard's wife in jail for spying on the FBI to learn about the FBI's plans to infiltrate Scientology.

Who knows, the Freezone may be the legitimate heir to Scientology.

I'll say this for Miscavige: He's got some brass ones.

When Hubbard slithered away into hiding, he instituted a management structure for the organization that had lots of layers and counter-balanced controlling entities, to manage his legacy. Miscavige saw an opening, and started to dictate to the rest what to do. Since most people like the certainty of a strong-willed leader, the rest of the execs just went along until it was too late for anyone else to gain back any measure of control. Either that, or little Davey lopped off their heads.

That's what I think happened. You could get a lot more detail from others who were there.

 

[Halfcentaur]

Mathematics are fundamentally true, numbers are arbitrary.
Government is arbitrary, language is arbitrary. Do you admit that scientology is just as arbitrary as government or do you think it's as fundamentally true as mathematics?

 

[Justinian2]

Mathematics are fundamentally true, numbers are arbitrary.
Government is arbitrary, language is arbitrary. Do you admit that scientology is just as arbitrary as government or do you think it's as fundamentally true as mathematics?

Scientology is more like chess. There's a book called "Chess Rules of Thumb" that contains hundreds of rules of thumb for chess. None are 100% always right, but they statistically steer your play in the right direction.

Government is always wrong.

Here's the definition of government:

1: the act or process of governing; specifically: authoritative direction or control


2 obsolete: moral conduct or behavior : discretion


3 a: the office, authority, or function of governing
b: obsolete: the term during which a governing official holds office


4: the continuous exercise of authority over and the performance of functions for a political unit : rule


5 a: the organization, machinery, or agency through which a political unit exercises authority and performs functions and which is usually classified according to the distribution of power within it b: the complex of political institutions, laws, and customs through which the function of governing is carried out


6: the body of persons that constitutes the governing authority of a political unit or organization: as a: the officials comprising the governing body of a political unit and constituting the organization as an active agency bcapitalized: the executive branch of the United States federal government ccapitalized: a small group of persons holding simultaneously the principal political executive offices of a nation or other political unit and being responsible for the direction and supervision of public affairs: (1): such a group in a parliamentary system constituted by the cabinet or by the ministry (2): administration 4b

I say government is ALWAYS WRONG because I don't want to be governed by idiots, I want to be protected by smart people.

 

[Justinian2]

I'll say this for Miscavige: He's got some brass ones.

When Hubbard slithered away into hiding, he instituted a management structure for the organization that had lots of layers and counter-balanced controlling entities, to manage his legacy. Miscavige saw an opening, and started to dictate to the rest what to do. Since most people like the certainty of a strong-willed leader, the rest of the execs just went along until it was too late for anyone else to gain back any measure of control. Either that, or little Davey lopped off their heads.

That's what I think happened. You could get a lot more detail from others who were there.

I left Scientology in 1973 when it was a happy, but expensive place. In 1973 Scientology was a happy go lucky place under the inspired leadership of L R Hubbard. I came back briefly in 1990 when Scientology was not so happy, and even more expensive. It was now under the iron fist of the ruthless Miscavage.

It's only in recent years that I've learned from high ranking defectors what happened and how MisCavage seized power.

 

[hgc]

I say government is ALWAYS WRONG because I don't want to be governed by idiots, I want to be protected by smart people.

a) Name some of these smart people.

b) How do you propose smart people gain power?

c) How is smart-people-protecting-you different from "government," other than that they are smart instead of idiots?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I left Scientology in 1973 when it was a happy, but expensive place. In 1973 Scientology was a happy go lucky place under the inspired leadership of L R Hubbard. I came back briefly in 1990 when Scientology was not so happy, and even more expensive. It was now under the iron fist of the ruthless Miscavage.

It's only in recent years that I've learned from high ranking defectors what happened and how MisCavage seized power.

How did MissCabbage manage to fool all those OT XX with the power over MEST so that he could take over the Church with scarcely a whimper from them? Is he cleared to OT XXI or sumtin'?

As PT Barnum may or may not have said, "There's a Fool born every minute".