Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[AlBell]

Maybe you can go listen to the link I already provided?

Do all of us a big favor and re-link it.

 

[Alt+F4]

So 'common sense' would be to ignore his lawyer, and do what internet experts say?

Well you lie about your finances, you lie about a second passport and you get a judge that still gives you bail. You don't have to be Clarence Darrow to know that judge should be your new best friend. And guess what? Sometimes lawyers give really, really bad advice because you know, like the rest of us they are just human and all.

 

[Unabogie]

Here is the manual. I'm searching through it.

http://www.manualowl.com/am/Honda/2008-Ridgeline/Manual/678?page=69

 

[Unabogie]

Regarding the chime:

If you turn the ignition switch to theACCESSORY (I) or LOCK (0)position without turning off theheadlight control dial, this indicatorremains on. A reminder chime willalso sound when you open the driver’sdoor

 

[Rare Truth]

...

All of this is on the tape, it's a long segment, and if he can't be arsed to listen to the evidence then he can just call me names to his heart's content. I won't feed the troll. And I am damn sure not going to type it all up just because some posters won't take 20 minutes to listen to the evidence.

This part?

CS: Okay, at the point where he said, are you following him, and he said, we don’t need you to do that, what went through your mind?
GZ: He’s right.
CS: So you shoulda stopped and went back to your vehicle.
GZ: I still wanted to give him an address.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] You said he ran again. Okay, this is because you don’t see him?
GZ: Correct.
CS: So at this point he has to be hiding from you.
GZ: I don’t know where he was.
CS: Well you…
GZ: I don’t see him.
CS: Well the law of the physics says that he’s hiding from you at this point. He could not have made it home…and came back to attack you in that time, so…What’s your, what’s your, um, account is that you don’t see him at this point. You’re at the “T” now, right? Here’s the pavement, correct? You’re looking down that way? That passage?
GZ: No, sir.
CS: Where’re you at?
GZ: Once he told me not to follow him…
CS: Mm hmm.
GZ: And I wasn’t following him. I was just going in the same direction he was. Once he said…
CS: That’s following.
GZ: Well he, I thought, I mean…
CS: If you’re…okay
GZ: …long gone.
CS: So you basically wrote if off, I mean…
GZ: Right. I was on the other side, I was on Retreat View Circle at that time.
CS: Okay.
DS: Okay, but the other day…again, this is, these are the questions that we’re going to have to able to explain to people…
GZ: Yes, ma’am.
DS: The other day you told me you got out of the car because dispatch was asking your location and you wanted to orient yourself. You did not tell me that you said, “Oh, ****, he’s running” and then got out of the car and went in that same direction at the same time. Do you see what the problem is?
GZ: Yes, ma’am.
DS: And I asked you did, would you, did you, you know, look for him and you told me no.
GZ: I don’t remember, ma’am. I’m sorry.
DS: You told me the only, the reason you got out of your car was to get an address.
GZ: Yes, right.
DS: But you decided to get the address…fresh in the second after you say, “Oh, ****, he’s running.” And then it sounds like you’re running too.
CS: Cause it was fast walking maybe?
GZ: No, it was just windy.
CS: It was. Okay. [continues playing call] Where you at now?
GZ: On Retreat View Circle, I think.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] What are you doing right now?
GZ: Walking back to my car.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, if I time this portion, this is important, okay? I almost gotta reconstruct this. [replays portion of call] When do you start walking back to your car? Time here. You’re going towards Retreat View, right?
GZ: Yeah.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, where you at now?
GZ: I think on Retreat View Circle.
CS: Okay. Is that 2:41? Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, you’re walking back to your car?
GZ: Yes, sir, [continues playing call] I’m thumping the damn flashlight. [can’t understand]
[call finishes]
DS: How long is that?
CS: It’s 84 seconds. From the point where you were walking back to your car from Retreat View to Twin Tree basically.
DS: It’s what, about 30 feet.
CS: That’s a minute and…20 seconds. Did you stop at the “T”?
GZ: No, I walked through. I stopped on Retreat View Circle.
CS: That’s where you were standing?
GZ: Yes, sir.
CS: Okay. But you didn’t get back into your car?
GZ: No, sir.
CS: Why not?
GZ: I was…
CS: You’re in the rain, you’re getting wet, you’re on the phone.
GZ: Because I was waiting, I, the, I had light there…
CS: So…
GZ: Where I was at and I was trying to hit my flashlight. I didn’t want to walk back through without light.
CS: Okay, a minute and 20 seconds.
GZ: Yes, sir.
CS: You’re in the rain, getting wet. You’ve wrote this guy off basically, you’re gonna meet the police. Okay, you see where the obstacle is here?
GZ: Yes, sir.
CS: Okay, I want you to think about that. I am speaking for you, for everybody. I’m trying to, I’m trying to do the best I can here.
GZ: Yes, sir.
CS: It’s a minute and 20 seconds. It doesn’t sound like you were saying, well it doesn’t sound like you quite recall exactly what happened at that point, okay? [can’t understand] something else. This is it, right? Okay.
CS: Okay can I ask, my concern is also this. “Oh, ****, he’s running” and I’m getting out of my car. In an instant [snaps fingers] to make sure I don’t lose sight of this guy. That’s what it sounds like. Are you following him? Cause that’s what it sounds like you’re doing, that’s why he asked you the question. It sounded to the dispatcher likely that you were running, and that’s why he asked you that question. “Are you following him?” And your answer is yes. Okay? But then you get to the other side and you’re concerned…[slapping sounds] about walking past this guy when you’ve already been chasing him, essentially. And he’s telling you to go back to your car and now you wanna pretend…or not pretend, you wanted us to believe that you’re concerned about having a flashlight to move back where you just ran?
CS: You’re looking for him.
DS: You tried to catch up to him, do you see what I’m saying?
GZ: No, I wasn’t. Um…
CS: Okay, it sounds like you’re looking for him.
DS: You brought a flashlight with you.
GZ: Yes, ma’am.
DS: You wanted to be able to see him.
CS: You wanted to catch him. You wanted to catch the bad guy…
GZ: No…
DS: No, it doesn’t…that’s…[can’t understand]
CS: *********** punk can’t get away. This is outside the interrogation room, okay? And we are in a whole different area right here. Okay, this is, this is where, you know, I mean, this is why I took you out of there, so you could hear this. So I can recall your memory and…let you see, if they say, if you say you walked back to your car, you stood outside your car for a couple minutes, they’re not going to believe anything I’ve got to say.
GZ: Yes, sir.
CS: And that’s why I’m saying, is there anything that you need to clarify right now?
GZ: [sigh]
CS: Did you pursue this kid? Did you wanna catch him?
GZ: No.
CS: Okay, it’s not you, it’s not what you’re about?
DS: Why did you tell them, never mind just have them call me when they get here and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
GZ: I was frustrated that I couldn’t think of the street name where I was…
DS: But you were gonna be back in your car from that distance in less than 15 or 20 seconds. So why would they need to call you?
GZ: I felt like I didn’t give them an adequate description of where I was from the clubhouse.
DS: Cause you know what the impression would be, is that you’re gonna continue to look and when they get here you’d just tell ‘em where you’re at, at that point. You see what I’m saying? Well…no, never mind, just tell ‘em to call me when they get here, and I’ll tell ‘em where I’m at. Meaning I might not be at my car. Where I just told ‘em I would be.
CS: I mean, you know, we’re here working for you here, okay?

2/29 audio interview part 3 (Inv. Serino and Inv. Singleton)

 

[sgtbaker]

What model truck was it? Maybe I can find that info. It's a good point. If the headlights were illuminating things and then shut off, that would explain a change in outlook on the area.

BTW, are we reasonably sure that the ding sound is from exiting the truck with the lights on, but keys out? We know he had his keys, but left the lights on? If so, we can time the duration from when he said he was heading back (in the interview, the point where he says NOW I'm heading back) and see how long that takes on the original NEN call to see if by that time (the time he should have been heading back) the lights would have gone off.

No, the dinging, I am assuming is from opening the door with the keys still in the ignition. The lights on all three of the cars we have now, as well as my old Suzuki, stay on, even after you turn the switch to off, if you turn the car off before you turn the lights off. I tried to look up times but I can't remember what type of truck Zimmerman had so I looked it up, in general. They vary from between 30 seconds to 90 seconds. It's a dealer feature and can be altered.

The Jeep is 90 seconds but my lights are aftermarket, obnoxiously bright LED's and they are wired in, so I don't know if the timing has been tampered with.

I went back and listened to the non emergency call and it at 2:11 you hear the ding and at 2:48 you hear him messing with the flashlight. Providing his headlights are on a 30 second delay, it's entirely plausible.

 

[crimresearch]

Well you lie about your finances, you lie about a second passport and you get a judge that still gives you bail. You don't have to be Clarence Darrow to know that judge should be your new best friend. And guess what? Sometimes lawyers give really, really bad advice because you know, like the rest of us they are just human and all.

Right, I'm sure you'd take your advice and tell the the lawyers not to do what they are required to do, if it was *you* going to trial...

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Deleted.

 

[Unabogie]

Ok, so I'm not sure where this leaves us:

If you remove the key from theignition switch with the headlightcontrol dial on, but do not open thedoor, the lights will turn off after 10minutes.Turning the dial tothe ‘‘ ’’ position turns on theparking lights, taillights, instrumentpanel lights, and license plate lights.Turning the dial to the ‘‘ ’’position turns on the headlights. Ifyou leave the lights on and removethe key from the ignition switch, youwill hear a reminder chime when youopen the driver’s door.When the dial is in the ‘‘ ’’ or‘‘ ’’ position, the lights onindicator comes on as a reminder.This indicator stays on if you leavethe lights on and turn the ignitionswitch to the ACCESSORY (I) orLOCK (0) position.The automatic lighting off featureturns off the headlights, all otherexterior lights, and the instrumentpanel lights within 15 seconds ofremoving the key from the ignitionswitch and closing the driver’s door. The lights will turn on again whenyou unlock or open the driver’s door.This feature activates if you leavethe headlight control dial in the‘‘ ’’ or ‘‘ ’’ position, removethe key, then open and close thedriver’s door.If you unlock the door, but do notopen it within 15 seconds, the lightsgo off. With the driver’s door open,you will hear a lights-on reminderchime.

So the times would either be 15 seconds or 10 minutes. 15 seconds means he did all his huffing and puffing without the lights, since that happens about 30-60 seconds in, IIRC. And if it's ten minutes (which does not seem likely) then it's impossible that he was using the headlights for illumination like he said.

(page 81 of the manual)

 

[sgtbaker]

Thanks. First link discussing a 2006:

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8087.html



I'll look for more.

That's if you leave the headlights on, they stay on, automatically, if you turn the car off before you turn the headlights off it's a different timer.

 

[Unabogie]

This part?



2/29 audio interview part 3 (Inv. Serino and Inv. Singleton)

That's it, thanks!

 

[Unabogie]

That's if you leave the headlights on, they stay on, automatically, if you turn the car off before you turn the headlights off it's a different timer.

I found the actual manual. If you take the key out, but don't open the door, it stays on 10 minutes. Otherwise, it shuts off in 15 seconds. It is not adjustable.

 

[johnny karate]

Stating as a fact GZ was going to flee the country based on circumstantial evidence is not really what I consider 'every benefit of the doubt'. It's actually sort of the opposite.

These are the judge's exact words:

It is entirely reasonable for this Court to find that, but for the requirement that he be place on electronic monitoring, the Defendant and his wife would have fled the United States with at least $130,000 of other people's money.

Zimmerman's actions speak for themselves.

He was afforded the opportunity to explain his actions and failed to do so.

So how is it unreasonable for the judge to draw the conclusion that he did?

What other conclusions could he have drawn?

And how is coming to that perfectly reasonable conclusion - coupled with the fact that he still granted him bond - at all an expression of bias towards Zimmerman?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Right, I'm sure you'd take your advice and tell the the lawyers not to do what they are required to do, if it was *you* going to trial...

Speaking for myself, if I was GZ, after that judge proclaimed I was planning to leave the country and my plans were thwarted, I'd feel terrified of that judge giving me a fair trial. I'd be especially concerned about whether the judge would show contempt for me in front of the jury. I suppose the danger of asking for a new judge is that you could end up with one that dislikes you even more. And I assume if his request is not granted it won't increase the judges affection for GZ .

So is it the judge that decides on whether to grant their motion for a new judge??

 

[sgtbaker]

I found the actual manual. If you take the key out, but don't open the door, it stays on 10 minutes. Otherwise, it shuts off in 15 seconds. It is not adjustable.

Funny because you can adjust it through the dealer. You take it to a dealer, tell them how long you want, and they turn it up or down, depending on your request. People do this because the running lights takes a toll on the battery.

 

[Alt+F4]

Right, I'm sure you'd take your advice and tell the the lawyers not to do what they are required to do, if it was *you* going to trial...

I have no idea if GZ is guilty of murder but he does come off as kinda stupid (or maybe he forgot to take his brain medicine, I don't know). He doesn't seem bright enough to employ competent legal representation. I think he should be made a ward of the state.

 

[johnny karate]

Speaking for myself, if I was GZ, after that judge proclaimed I was planning to leave the country and my plans were thwarted, I'd feel terrified of that judge giving me a fair trial. I'd be especially concerned about whether the judge would show contempt for me in front of the jury.

Here's a hot tip: Don't make plans to flee the country, and you can sidestep this problem altogether.

 

[Unabogie]

Funny because you can adjust it through the dealer. You take it to a dealer, tell them how long you want, and they turn it up or down, depending on your request. People do this because the running lights takes a toll on the battery.

Ok, so do you agree this doesn't really tell us much? If he exited the car and took off after Trayvon walked calmly in search of an address, then the lights would have gone off well before he hits the T. That's a thirty second walk (I contend he was running but George says he wasn't). So walking toward the T, the lights would have gone off by the time he hit the first driveway. You can see how long it takes in the walkthrough. It's about 15 seconds to get to the house from where they exit the car.

So he hits the first house, the lights go out, but he keeps on walking in the dark. It's only when he gets to RVC that he's concerned about the lack of light. This is what the SPD were getting at, right?

Also, absent and evidence he had his timer adjusted at a dealer, we should assume his timer was set at the default 15 seconds, correct?

 

[sgtbaker]

Ok, so I'm not sure where this leaves us:



So the times would either be 15 seconds or 10 minutes. 15 seconds means he did all his huffing and puffing without the lights, since that happens about 30-60 seconds in, IIRC. And if it's ten minutes (which does not seem likely) then it's impossible that he was using the headlights for illumination like he said.

(page 81 of the manual)

The feature you are talking about is if you leave the headlights in the on or accessory lights position, according to the symbol they used in the manual you linked. It doesn't say the time if you turn your car off after turning the lights off.

 

[sgtbaker]

Ok, so do you agree this doesn't really tell us much? If he exited the car and took off after Trayvon walked calmly in search of an address, then the lights would have gone off well before he hits the T. That's a thirty second walk (I contend he was running but George says he wasn't). So walking toward the T, the lights would have gone off by the time he hit the first driveway. You can see how long it takes in the walkthrough. It's about 15 seconds to get to the house from where they exit the car.

So he hits the first house, the lights go out, but he keeps on walking in the dark. It's only when he gets to RVC that he's concerned about the lack of light. This is what the SPD were getting at, right?

Also, absent and evidence he had his timer adjusted at a dealer, we should assume his timer was set at the default 15 seconds, correct?

Well your contention is wrong as I explained above. The link explains what the two positions are and none of them are regarding what happens when you turn your lights off, after you turn your car off. I maintain my position.