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Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

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And yet he never found an address.

Because he just confirmed that they had his phone number and the officer would call when they arrived. He fumbled with directions and then said, "can the officer just call me?" I don't know what that is evidence of.
 
Because he just confirmed that they had his phone number and the officer would call when they arrived. He fumbled with directions and then said, "can the officer just call me?" I don't know what that is evidence of.

Because he claims he stood there in front of a house for 84 seconds, a house he was only standing in front of in order to find its address. He didn't know that was RVC he was standing on? So while he's standing there for 84 seconds, he never says anything about the address that's right in front of him, which he claims was his sole reason for exiting the vehicle, even though on the NEN you hear him say "****, he's running", you hear him exit the car immediately, you hear him panting, you hear him SAY HE WAS FOLLOWING THE SUSPECT, and then for 84 seconds he does not return to his car because he was looking for an address, and he STOPS in front of a house and never mentions the address?

And you don't find ANY of that important?
 
I'm still waiting for that cite for your claim Zimmerman says he was scared while at the T.


Yes I did. It's in the interview from June 29th. Go find it, since it's been linked over and over, and please listen at least once. Maybe it will change your mind about some things.
 
Because he claims he stood there in front of a house for 84 seconds, a house he was only standing in front of in order to find its address. He didn't know that was RVC he was standing on? So while he's standing there for 84 seconds, he never says anything about the address that's right in front of him, which he claims was his sole reason for exiting the vehicle, even though on the NEN you hear him say "****, he's running", you hear him exit the car immediately, you hear him panting, you hear him SAY HE WAS FOLLOWING THE SUSPECT, and then for 84 seconds he does not return to his car because he was looking for an address, and he STOPS in front of a house and never mentions the address?

And you don't find ANY of that important?

According to the walkthrough, he was on the sidewalk, between the houses, not in front of them. It seems to me, at that point, he was very distracted by the flashlight not working. I just don't understand what you point is. He didn't ever give an address? Fine but you can still hear him on the phone, trying to give directions while being distracted by the flashlight issue. I just don't think there is anything to be taken from that, other than he got distracted for a whole minute and a half, by a malfunctioning flashlight.
 
Yes I did. It's in the interview from June 29th. Go find it, since it's been linked over and over, and please listen at least once. Maybe it will change your mind about some things.

If you are talking about him saying he was scared or nervous to walk back without the flashlight, I agree that he did say that in the 29th interview.
 
That OM-1. It should be in most sets.

[qimg]http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/Cylinder1967/css.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/Cylinder1967/ZimmermanCrimeScene06_540x405.jpg[/qimg]

Thank you very much. If the diagram is correct, perhaps it tells us that when George says things about being at the T, it doesn't necessarily mean where the sidewalks actually cross. If we insist on mathematical accuracy in these kinds of statements, we'd then have to accuse one of the officers of lying.

Sgt. Ceisla, (p.5) "He saw a flashlight near the 'T' intersection illuminated on the ground."

Ofc. Mead, (p. 11) "Officer Mead saw a flashlight 'on' at the intersection of the two walkways when he responded to the scene."

Obviously, either the keys/mini flash was moved or the second officer was mistaken. If the cop can be mistaken about precisely where things were, so can Georgey.

To me, this helps resolve the discrepancy between where GZ say the fight started and where everything ended up.

I still cannot explain why TM might have punched him out of the blue.
 
Since we have SPD's crime scene sketch (p 145) and distance table (p 147), we can calculate the distances involved. First, the sketch itself:

css.jpg


Distances recorded are in relation to two landmarks - Pillar A is the pillar supporting the patio on the northwest corner of 2861 Retreat View Circle. This is where the distance lines converge near the top of the sketch. Pillar B is that of the southwest corner of the adjacent townhose, 2851 RVC. This is where the distance lines converge near the bottom.

Looking at the photo of 2861 RVC, notice three things - first the pillar itself (below the dish), next the yellow marker for OM-4 (near the base of the white fence), and finally Pillar B (the pillar just next to the tree.)

pillara.jpg


Looking at the distance table (p. 147) we see that the distance from Pillar A to OM-4 is 22 feet and the distance from Pillar B to OM-4 is 11 feet, 2 inches. (I believe that 39.10 is feet/inches and not a decimal notation with significant digits.)

Now we have established a base for a series of triangles from which to measure distance.

csstriangle.jpg


Substituting the distances (after converting to inches) from the distance table (p. 147), and solving the triangle, we find the following:

triangle.jpg


Not quite useful yet, but we're getting there. Since I'm interested in the vertical distance (in the perspective of my diagram) from Pillar A to OM-6, I need to make a right triangle.

rttriangle.jpg


Solving that right triangle, we find that the vertical distance from Pillar A to OM-6 (segment d above) is 239 inches - right at 20 feet.

Since the townhomes are parallel to the sidewalk running between the them, we can also say that OM-6 is right at 20 feet down the sidewalk - not including the distance from the top of the T to the imaginary line connecting the north sides of the townhomes.
 
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Yes I did. It's in the interview from June 29th. Go find it, since it's been linked over and over, and please listen at least once. Maybe it will change your mind about some things.
So you can't produce a link? :rolleyes:

Not my job to back up your claim for you.
 
The funny thing is that all these theories about how GZ is lying are obsessively focused on irrelevant chicken**** minutia, 45' here, oh my God how could he not know the street name there, et al. But if GZ is lying, it's almost certainly about the initial moments of the confrontation, and whether he was truly in fear for his life at the final moment. The problem is that with no witnesses to the confrontation starting, and no witness to the moment of the shot, we will never know for certain if he is telling the truth about those exact moments.

That stark truth is too much for the "GZ is a violent criminal racist" crowd to bear, so they are forced to invent theory after theory, grasping at straws like "he should have known the street name". Ya, let's send someone to jail for the rest of their life because they didn't know the street name you are convinced they should know.
 
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<snip>

Looking at the distance table (p. 147) we see that the distance from Pillar A to OM-4 is 22 feet and the distance from Pillar B to OM-4 is 11 feet, 2 inches. (I believe that 39.10 is feet/inches and not a decimal notation with significant digits.)
<snip>


Not that it will make a significant change in your calculations, but I suspect that those distances are being expressed in feet and decimal fractions of feet, with most of them being rounded off to the nearest tenth of a foot.
 
Not that it will make a significant change in your calculations, but I suspect that those distances are being expressed in feet and decimal fractions of feet, with most of them being rounded off to the nearest tenth of a foot.

You may very well be right. The reason I chose feet + inches instead of decimal feet is the distance table.

There is no decimal value greater than 12.

One measurement uses a decimal value of .1

One measurement uses a decimal value of .10

So CST Smith either dropped a zero as a signifigant digit in one measurement and not the other or the decimal value is expressed as inches. I should probably look into the equipment used - we'll consider this a preliminary finding. :)
 
You may very well be right. The reason I chose feet + inches instead of decimal feet is the distance table.

There is no decimal value greater than 12.

One measurement uses a decimal value of .1

One measurement uses a decimal value of .10

So CST Smith either dropped a zero as a signifigant digit in one measurement and not the other or the decimal value is expressed as inches. I should probably look into the equipment used - we'll consider this a preliminary finding. :)
I think you are off by about 3.7'. That spells guilty! :D
 
The problem is that with no witnesses to the confrontation starting, and no witness to the moment of the shot, we will never know for certain if he is telling the truth about those exact moments.

But we do know he was telling the truth seconds before (W6) and seconds after (Cutcher.) We also know that at least the distance between the two didn't change in the time it took W6 to turn around, grab the phone and take a couple of steps up the stairs (FDLE Firearms Lab.)
 
Since we have SPD's crime scene sketch (p 145) and distance table (p 147), we can calculate the distances involved. First, the sketch itself:

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/Cylinder1967/css.jpg

Distances recorded are in relation to two landmarks - Pillar A is the pillar supporting the patio on the northwest corner of 2861 Retreat View Circle. This is where the distance lines converge near the top of the sketch. Pillar B is that of the southwest corner of the adjacent townhose, 2851 RVC. This is where the distance lines converge near the bottom.

Looking at the photo of 2861 RVC, notice three things - first the pillar itself (below the dish), next the yellow marker for OM-4 (near the base of the white fence), and finally Pillar B (the pillar just next to the tree.)

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/Cylinder1967/pillara.jpg

Looking at the distance table (p. 147) we see that the distance from Pillar A to OM-4 is 22 feet and the distance from Pillar B to OM-4 is 11 feet, 2 inches. (I believe that 39.10 is feet/inches and not a decimal notation with significant digits.)

Now we have established a base for a series of triangles from which to measure distance.

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/Cylinder1967/csstriangle.jpg

Substituting the distances (after converting to inches) from the distance table (p. 147), and solving the triangle, we find the following:

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/Cylinder1967/triangle.jpg

Not quite useful yet, but we're getting there. Since I'm interested in the vertical distance (in the perspective of my diagram) from Pillar A to OM-6, I need to make a right triangle.

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t480/Cylinder1967/rttriangle.jpg

Solving that right triangle, we find that the vertical distance from Pillar A to OM-6 (segment d above) is 239 inches - right at 20 feet.

Since the townhomes are parallel to the sidewalk running between the them, we can also say that OM-6 is right at 20 feet down the sidewalk - not including the distance from the top of the T to the imaginary line connecting the north sides of the townhomes.

I think the distance you're missing here is the distance from the T to the first house. In that first image you posted, you can see how that distance is at least 15 feet. I don't think it's at all close to 8 feet, as someone suggested earlier. Again, you can go to Google Maps and use the ruler tool and see what they say. Is Google Maps wrong? Is there any reason to think their tool is inaccurate?

https://maps.google.com/maps?showlabs=1

You can make a distance tool there by saving a map to your "my maps" and then run distances yourself.

For one thing, the T sidewalk is not parallel to the houses. On the side where George claims he was attacked, it's a little further away than on the other side.

Google Maps says:

  1. The distance from the T to the first house is 17 feet.
  2. The lots are 27 feet, not 22 feet. I'm not sure if the pillars are different from the lots or if there is space in between the houses.
  3. The overall distance to the body, is 45 feet or so.
Please try this yourself. There is no way the distance is 20 feet.


Also, Trayvon's phone was found even further south of the T. If they traveled from the T, fighting, and we think his phone fell just as the fight started, how the hell did it end up 15 feet south of the body? Do you have a theory about that? Did someone throw the phone?
 
I think the distance you're missing here is the distance from the T to the first house. In that first image you posted, you can see how that distance is at least 15 feet. I don't think it's at all close to 8 feet, as someone suggested earlier.

The missing distance is noted in the last paragraph. I think it's closer to 8 feet, but I haven't figured that out yet.

Again, you can go to Google Maps and use the ruler tool and see what they say. Is Google Maps wrong? Is there any reason to think their tool is inaccurate?

Any comment I make about inaccurate tools will have this thread back in moderation. :)


For one thing, the T sidewalk is not parallel to the houses. On the side where George claims he was attacked, it's a little further away than on the other side.

You're claiming that the dogwalk portion of the sidewalk isn't fairly parallel to the townhomes on RVC? I know the cutthrough winds a bit, but that is irrelevant to the calculation.

At any rate, I've shown my work and methodology so I invite any specific objections. Otherwise, it's between CST Smith and some old Greek dudes. :P
 
By the way, the 22 feet could be referring to the first aid kit, which is item 4 on the evidence list and was found almost to the end of the first house, close to the house. It may not be referring to the width of the lots, which again, Google Maps says is more like 27 feet.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/

This page is informative.
 
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