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Mitt Romney, liar.

This is a big nothing-burger, and given the "three pinocchio" rating from that right wing rag known as the Washington Post, it isn't going to hurt Romney at all among people smart enough to use Google.

Which means that the idiots at the Boston Globe will be flogging it for several more months.

I am quite amused at the way the Obama supporters around here have latched onto this story like it was a life preserver. Sort of puts the lie to all the expressions of confidence that Hopey McChange is going to win reelection easily.
 
I think that depends on whether or not it was a good decision, given what was known a priori (not a postiori), about the QB's suitability to make the calls. If the coach should have known the QB wasn't up to it, sure. If the QB was up to it, but things just didn't work out, then no, I don't think he is to blame.

Is there any reason to think the people Romney left making the decisions weren't up to the task? I haven't seen anyone make that argument.

Probably not. That would be a strawman of this topic.

In the coach/quarterback analogy, Romney's opponents claim isn't that he left the call to an incompetent QB. It's that Romney had the capacity and the ability to correct the the QB after a bad call had been made (e.g. sending American jobs to other countries) but chose to do nothing.

It takes some of the air out of the sails of Romney's claim that his business experience proves him to be a good creator of American jobs. It rather shows that he is opportunistic when it comes to where those jobs go. Great for being a businessman, bad for being President.
 
Which means that the idiots at the Boston Globe will be flogging it for several more months.

I am quite amused at the way the Obama supporters around here have latched onto this story like it was a life preserver. Sort of puts the lie to all the expressions of confidence that Hopey McChange is going to win reelection easily.

Is it more or less desperate than calling your opposition names, with no substance at all?
 
The issue here isn't the legality of the SEC filings, necessarily. The issue lies in the fact that, subsequent to Romney's "departure" from Bain in 1999 (I put "departure" in quotes to indicate the potential that he was, at least on paper, still part of the company in all likelihood) the company, which he still had a controlling interest in, was responsible for the dissolution of many American jobs. As others have said, the fact that Romney may or may not have delegated the responsibility for the day-to-day operations of Bain to others in the subsequent three years after his ostensible departure from Bain in 1999 is immaterial to the fact that, if he is listed as the controlling interest during those three years, then he is ultimately responsible for everything that company did during those three years. Bain was directly responsible for the loss of something like 100,000 American jobs during that time period IIRC; therefore, by extension, Romney bears some responsibility as well, and it speaks directly to the claim that he has been constantly making that he knows how to create jobs IN AMERICA.

It is entirely likely that Romney did delegate his power over day-to-day operations at Bain, but that does not by any definition of the word abrogate his own responsibility for the actions of those he delegated the power to. I delegate jobs all the time in the military, but I'm still ultimately responsible for ensuring that those jobs are completed, even if that just means I get my soldiers to report in when a job is completed. Romney is just as responsible as I am for the actions of the people below him.

The whole point of this issue is that Romney has been touting his ability to create jobs since practically the beginning of the primaries and througout the election cycle; this issue seems to reflect directly (and badly) on that claim, since Bain in fact caused jobs to be LOST during those three years. It also speaks directly to his claim that a businessman is the right person to run a country, which is an ENTIRELY different animal from a corporation when one examines the day-to-day operations. I've worked in the government in various capacities (as a government consultant and in the military) for my entire adult life; trust me, I know the difference between a government and a corporation, and they are VASTLY different in terms of operations. Being a government consultant has given me a unique look into the differences between the government and a corporation, since my day-to-day work was conducted in the government and was conducted according to their standards, but I still had numerous obligations to the corporation I ultimately worked for that were entirely different from the equivalent requirements in the government. Ultimately, I find Romney's claim that a businessman can run the government to be specious at best, and with the revelation that he still ostensibly held a controlling interest in a company that LOST American jobs for quite a while after he stated he left, I find myself losing confidence rapidly in the notion (which was already remote to begin with) that he could possibly run the country better than President Obama has in the past four years.

My two cents American; take them or leave them, as you wish.
 
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The issue here isn't the legality of the SEC filings, necessarily. The issue lies in the fact that, subsequent to Romney's "departure" from Bain in 1999 (I put "departure" in quotes to indicate the potential that he was, at least on paper, still part of the company in all likelihood) the company, which he still had a controlling interest in, was responsible for the dissolution of many American jobs. As others have said, the fact that Romney may or may not have delegated the responsibility for the day-to-day operations of Bain to others in the subsequent three years after his ostensible departure from Bain in 1999 is immaterial to the fact that, if he is listed as the controlling interest during those three years, then he is ultimately responsible for everything that company did during those three years. Bain was directly responsible for the loss of something like 100,000 American jobs during that time period IIRC; therefore, by extension, Romney bears some responsibility as well, and it speaks directly to the claim that he has been constantly making that he knows how to create jobs IN AMERICA.

It is entirely likely that Romney did delegate his power over day-to-day operations at Bain, but that does not by any definition of the word abrogate his own responsibility for the actions of those he delegated the power to. I delegate jobs all the time in the military, but I'm still ultimately responsible for ensuring that those jobs are completed, even if that just means I get my soldiers to report in when a job is completed. Romney is just as responsible as I am for the actions of the people below him.

The whole point of this issue is that Romney has been touting his ability to create jobs since practically the beginning of the primaries and througout the election cycle; this issue seems to reflect directly (and badly) on that claim, since Bain in fact caused jobs to be LOST during those three years. It also speaks directly to his claim that a businessman is the right person to run a country, which is an ENTIRELY different animal from a corporation when one examines the day-to-day operations. I've worked in the government in various capacities (as a government consultant and in the military) for my entire adult life; trust me, I know the difference between a government and a corporation, and they are VASTLY different in terms of operations. Being a government consultant has given me a unique look into the differences between the government and a corporation, since my day-to-day work was conducted in the government and was conducted according to their standards, but I still had numerous obligations to the corporation I ultimately worked for that were entirely different from the equivalent requirements in the government. Ultimately, I find Romney's claim that a businessman can run the government to be specious at best, and with the revelation that he still ostensibly held a controlling interest in a company that LOST American jobs for quite a while after he stated he left, I find myself losing confidence rapidly in the notion (which was already remote to begin with) that he could possibly run the country better than President Obama has in the past four years.

My two cents American; take them or leave them, as you wish.

+++ Excellent Summary.
 
The issue here isn't the legality of the SEC filings, necessarily.

The original attack by the Obama campaign was formulated that either he is responsible for outsourcing (or offshoring--or whatever term they prefer) jobs because he was still actively involved with running Bain, or he lied to the SEC.

In other words, either he lied to the American people (probably) or he lied to the SEC (not so likely).

But he's certainly lying now. His claim to the CNN reporter yesterday is that he "left any role" with the company in 1999. Isn't being the owner and even pro-forma CEO who signs all the SEC filings (including the ones that claim in no uncertain terms that he is the ultimate "decider" in the company) having a role with the company?

And I think the evidence points to him doing just what he said he'd do: continuing on a part-time basis to have a say in investment decisions, but no part in day to day operations.


I saw another interview where the reporter said, if he claims to have no role after '99, then he can't also claim job creation for that time period as his accomplishment. Can he have it both ways? Mitt answers that since these jobs were formed by the company he founded, he gets credit for them.* Oh? Then does that thinking not apply to everything the company did after he supposedly "left"?

*[ETA: Maddeningly, the reporter dropped the line of question at this point and moved on. Why didn't he stop there and challenge Mitt for his illogical answers? He asked Mitt if he can have it both ways, and Mitt's answer was, somehow, yes.]
 
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I do think this will be devastating to Romney's campaign. His main credential he's been emphasizing has been Bain. He wants us to look at it, but not too closely. (I suppose the same is true of his governorship, but what with the whole "repeal Obamacare" thing, I don't think he wants to emphasize his Massachusetts accomplishments.)
 
It seems to me that "no role" can reasonably be taken to mean that he had no input in day to day operations, at least when the claim is made in response to criticism of decisions made in the course Bain's day to day operations.

His "no role" claim was in response to criticisms of major investment decisions (that resulted in job creation in other countries). I disagree that "no role" can reasonably mean the he had no input in day to day operations only even though he was still involved in investment decisions.

And of course logically, his claim has been that he had no role at all. The mere fact that he signed SEC filings (making claims that he was the ultimate person in charge and responsible for everything the company does) contradicts the simple logical meaning of his claim.

As for clearing this matter up by a few minutes of googling, that's poor reasoning. By that method, you might believe that Bigfoot exists and so on.

We've discussed the FactCheck article at some length here. They offer no real support for their position on this. And they mischaracterize the evidence the Obama campaign proffered. (Just the idea that SEC filings signed by Romney acting as CEO that say in explicit terms that he was the guy in charge are "irrelevant" is absurd.)
 
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I am quite amused at the way the Obama supporters around here have latched onto this story like it was a life preserver.
What with the Citizen's United ruling having sent our political system sailing into uncharted waters, life preservers might be recommended, but this story is really more like a lottery ticket, I'd say.

Not many of us would really expect to scratch that ticket and watch the words "Felony Investigation" emerge, but what one gets for the price of a lottery ticket is at least a few brief moments in which the world is filled with new possibilities. (Millionaires don't typically invest a lot in lottery tickets, or so I would presume, and not just because they understand why statisticians refer to lotteries as "the stupidity tax" -- it's because, for them, the world is already filled with possibilities).

I'm not sure it would be all that as a prize anyway, considering that it would (I guess) mean that the rest of the clown circus would return to the stage for an encore, and with so much of the comic value of that having been exhausted already, it might be rather more creepy than funny.
 
The issue here isn't the legality of the SEC filings, necessarily.
No, that's just the wall the Romney bus has run up against with his fast-and-loose approach to the whole concept of "truth".

Unfortunately for him, the SEC does not use Etch A Sketch as a recording medium.
 
Apparently, five months after Romney "left any role" at Bain, he was being extensively quoted in press releases about personnel changes at the company.

Bain Capital CEO W. Mitt Romney, currently on a part-time leave of absence to head the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee for the 2002 Games said, "Geoff and Marc have each made very significant contributions to the growth of our business, and have played important roles in furthering its success. In particular, Geoff, who helped us to start Bain Capital played a key role in building our franchise and led several of our highly successful transactions. Marc brought extensive capital markets expertise to the firm, where he co-headed our mezzanine efforts and played a critical role in conceiving and helping to start Sankaty Advisors, our high yield asset business, which now has over $ 2 billion under management. While we will miss them, we wish them well and look forward to working with them as they build their firm."

No other Bain executive (other than the two employees leaving the company) is even mentioned in the press release, much less quoted.

Just Romney.
 
...

if Romney doesn't manage a miracle it's four more years.
Agreed, which has been the case ever since no one could best him in the primaries. Not that any of them were much better; I'm sorry Cain had too much baggage. Newt too, who imo was clearly the smartest and best debater.
 
So he was given $100 000 a year because they couldn't get his name off the SEC filings, even though he was gone?

And he has the nerve of accusing the crowd at the NAACP rally of wanting a handout? Oh wait, they want a GOVERNMENT handout, and he got his from a private company, so that makes it ok.
Those of us who will hold our noses and vote for him agree with that, although I'd use acceptable-business-practice-with-private-earned-income rather than ok.
 
Sounds about right.

I think AlBell misread reports that Romney has lately been out-fundraising Obama.

Either that or he read something that compared Obama's war chest (alone) to that of Romney plus the pro-Romney/anti-Obama PACs and other organizations that electioneer (yes, GPS Crossroads is officially not a PAC and not subject to the relatively anemic disclosure laws that currently exist!).
That.
 
I define an employee as someone who signs a contract for that company while acting in the capacity of managing director of that company.

Well, the SEC doesn't. In fact, you don't either. Perhaps your definition includes that, but it isn't that, or companies wouldn't have any employees except managing directors.
 
So, if I understand the GOP spin on this, Romney was not CEO in spite of the paperwork and the salary, and no interim CEO was ever appointed, and nobody illegally took decisions on his behalf.

So, Republicans, did Bain conduct no business over the 1999-2002 interval that required contracts being approved or any other legally-binding decisions? None at all? And the board of director's meetings; Romney did not report at all to them in the interval in question?
Good points. Does anyone know if Bain Capital had 10K filing requirements? If private I suspect not, but don't know.

As bad as this is looking, is there any chance Romney would turn down the yet-to-be Nomination and suggest someone else? If so, who?

At some point he needs to face the fact he isn't going to win.
 
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