Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Limehouse Chappie]

The last thing I would want someone to do is read one of the Race threads on the JREF. It can be quite a madhouse.

Some people claim there is no such thing as race, period. Others draw the line at a few, to several races. Others say there are hundreds.

There is no agreed upon set definition.

Let's just say that if a Chinese person was posting hate about the Japanese in general, and then a person on here said that that Chinese person was "self hating" it would be frowned upon. That is exactly what some here did when Z posted hate about Mexicans. That is aside from the fact that posting hate about anyone is bad in the first place.

It's true that there are many interpretations of race, but the only opinions that interest me are those of the experts. All I'm objecting to is the use of the word racist to refer to a nationality. Call it quibbling or whatever, but it just bugs me. Certainly there can be hateful or insensitive statements made about "Mexicans" irrespective of any issue of race.

 

[This is The End]

Everything George has said about wanting to get a street address comes after the killing. This is obviously an excuse that George manufactured after the fact. There was no reason to give the dispatcher an address on a street that was not where he was parked and not where he planned to meet the police.

I agree that it is quite obvious. Did George change his reason for going all the way down that sidewalk because he was nervous, dumb, or guilty? That is the question.

 

[This is The End]

It's true that there are many interpretations of race, but the only opinions that interest me are those of the experts.

Read those threads. You will be surprised at what the "experts" say. They have some that agree with all three of those possibilities. That there are zero races, that there are a few to several, or that there are hundreds.

I believe we came to the agreement that the word "race" needs to be replaced with or equated with "ethnicities".

I would like to say, welcome to the JREF! It is always, good to see new people here.

One of the rules here is to not go off topic, so if we discuss this further without mentioning the fact that people said Zimmerman was self-hating because he posted hate speech about Mexicans while, in fact, Z is (if I remember correctly) half white and half Peruvian, it will be off topic.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Defense moves to oust a second judge?

Yep, it sure sounds like the prosecution is in dire trouble.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/100020949...or allowing an impartial trial to take place.

 

[This is The End]

Wow, this is huge. I wonder what his likelihood of success is. So much for (me) wondering if Omara will play hard ball, he pulls no punches here against a judge who seemed to like him (Omara). I think every single sentence of the motion is spot on, I've been flabbergasted by the judges conduct. If the judge shows that type of contempt for the defendant once a jury gets on the case it could have devastating consequences for allowing an impartial trial to take place.

Was there any doubt that their main priority after the Judges' statements at the last bond hearing was to attack the judge?

As far as I know, everything the judge said is backed up with evidence, and it was used to determine bond amount. Did he go a little overboard with it? Perhaps. Then again, Z let his lawyer and his wife lie to him at the first bond hearing, so I'm not sure how much leeway Z should continue to get. He took off the kid gloves.

ETA: I would have to say the odds of that motion being granted are less than 10%.

ETA: This is their "out". Even if it isn't granted and they lose the case, the now have an "out".

 

[This is The End]

Does anyone have a link directly to the pdf? I don't have a scribd account. Thanks in advance.

Weird how they include this:

[at the June 29th bond hearing] "The State did not offer evidence to rebut Mr. Zimmerman's self-defense claim."

What in the world???

And what about this gem:

"Generally, a statement by the judge that he feels a party has lied in a case indicates bias against the party."

That tells you all you need to know about this motion. It's the defense preaching to their choir.

 

[This is The End]

And they include this:

"The Court completely ignores Mr. Zimmerman's voluntary disclosure and subsequent surrender of the donated funds to his lawyer before their existence was discovered by the Court"

Not only did he not disclose it to the court, he didn't even disclose it to you! Until after the first bond hearing when he let you lie about it!

Since he immediately ties that to the Judge's comments about flight let's not forget the real timeline:

So you are clear on the time line now?

*Z is in jail supposedly planning his escape from the country.
*At the bond hearing Z still has hopes of escape.
*At the bond hearing Z sits there like a potted palm and lets his lawyer lie when the lawyer says Z has no other passports.
*Z get's out of jail after the bond hearing.
*Z's hopes are dashed for whatever reason.
*Then, days later, Z turns in his original passport.​

Do you see why saying: "I don't understand why the Judge thought Z might flee since he turned in his passport to his lawyer!" makes absolutely no sense?

Don't forget the last part of that little time-line.

*Z's lawyer composes and dates the document showing that Z turned in his passport but does not submit it in hopes that the entire thing will go unnoticed.

Some people are forgetting what the word after means. Z changes his story for going all the way down the sidewalk after the live not911 call.

Z tells his lawyer, and therefore the court, about his funds and original passport after the bond hearing.

After.

 

[Dan O.]

Unabogie - suppose, for the sake of argument, GZ wanted to get a nearby street address to where he was standing on the phone with NEN. (i.e. Like 123 retreat view circle)

What ways could he accomplish that task ?

Where are you going with this? George was on the phone with the NEN operator. He had plenty of time to have walked to Retreat View Circle which he claims that he knew the name of because that is the street he lives on. And while there he could have simply turned around and looked at the number on any of the houses.

So where in that recorded phone call do we hear George giving the exact address where he is at the moment? We don't. Because George totally failed to accomplish that task. Either that wasn't his intention at the time. Or, he didn't walk through to Retreat View Circle. Or, he is just too stupid to carry out a task with more than two steps.

 

[Dan O.]

Page 11:Officer Mead saw the flashlight "on" at the intersection

Hope that clears up whether "It's obvious as all get-out it was a 'flash light on a ring.'" or it was actually a flashlight that was "on".

So now it's Mead that says the flashlight was on. I thought you were previously saying it was Smith the photographer.

 

[This is The End]

Does anyone have a link directly to the pdf? I don't have a scribd account. Thanks in advance.

http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/motion to disqualify Judge Lester.pdf

You're welcome.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

This post reminds me, TheL8Elvis, did you respond to this post:

If you did, could you post me a link?

I must of have missed it. Sometimes this thread moves too fast, and I'm in it all the time.

I think GZ for out to see where TM was going, not necessarily to follow him or catch him. For some, that may be a difference without a distinction - I think it's a real difference. I think to answer 'are you following him?' with yes does not rule out '...but just to see where he is going'. The street sign, yes, that probably was in the back of his mind, and evolved as an excuse to take a look around. But that is my conjecture, and I can't prove it, I'm not in GZ head (thankfully.)

He doesn't sound winded or breathing heavy to me, and I know the wind can easily make a cell phone sound like that, even when you are standing still. But since it never gets that loud again, I assume he was moving at a quick walk, and probably didn't do that again.

As to TM jumping out of the bushes - not literally, but I do believe TM could have made it home in the time GZ was on the call, easily, had he desired. So I surmise he was walking that way, and maybe saw GZ walk by going east, and was like WTF - are you kidding me, is this guy following me for real ? And walked back up the sidewalk. And then comes GZ walking bavk west towards his truck, and TM had enough, and said 'why are you following me/wtf is your problem?' ? Again, conjecture.

 

[Unabogie]

Where are you going with this? George was on the phone with the NEN operator. He had plenty of time to have walked to Retreat View Circle which he claims that he knew the name of because that is the street he lives on. And while there he could have simply turned around and looked at the number on any of the houses.

So where in that recorded phone call do we hear George giving the exact address where he is at the moment? We don't. Because George totally failed to accomplish that task. Either that wasn't his intention at the time. Or, he didn't walk through to Retreat View Circle. Or, he is just too stupid to carry out a task with more than two steps.

That's a great point. For everyone who believes George's story about waiting for 84 seconds because it was dark by the T and he was scared, that he just went over to RVC to get an address...

Why, having reached RVC, with a working flashlight, was he unable to report back to the dispatcher the address which was his sole reason for leaving his vehicle carrying his gun?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

So now it's Mead that says the flashlight was on. I thought you were previously saying it was Smith the photographer.

Yes, that is correct. Initially smith, now verified by mead.

 

[WildCat]

That's a great point. For everyone who believes George's story about waiting for 84 seconds because it was dark by the T and he was scared,

What on earth makes you think his story is he was scared when he was at the T?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That's a great point. For everyone who believes George's story about waiting for 84 seconds because it was dark by the T and he was scared, that he just went over to RVC to get an address...

Why, having reached RVC, with a working flashlight, was he unable to report back to the dispatcher the address which was his sole reason for leaving his vehicle carrying his gun?

He agreed the police were going to call him. So maybe if he stood there, they would call him and he could say "I am at 123 RCV". I don't see why this is confusing or worth bolding ?

 

[johnny karate]

I don't think the legal standard applies in this discussion, but like any other claim I think those clamoring for Zimmerman's head should adduce facts to support their position. I see tons of certainty, lots of outrage, and piles of speculation, but precious few facts. I'm skeptical of Zimmerman's guilt the same way I'm skeptical about most things.

Where do you see people clamoring for Zimmerman's head that you felt the use of the term "Trayvon-truther" was appropriate?

Because for the most part, all I see are some people who don't believe Zimmerman's story, while managing not to clamor for his head in the process.

And since you acknowledge that legal standards don't apply to this discussion... if I don't believe Zimmerman when he says he acted in self-defense, exactly what "burden" do I have?

 

[Unabogie]

Wow, this is huge. I wonder what his likelihood of success is. So much for (me) wondering if Omara will play hard ball, he pulls no punches here against a judge who seemed to like him (Omara). I think every single sentence of the motion is spot on, I've been flabbergasted by the judges conduct. If the judge shows that type of contempt for the defendant once a jury gets on the case it could have devastating consequences for allowing an impartial trial to take place.

I don't think it's huge. I think it's desperate. And I don't think Judge Lester is going to grant him a new judge. You don't get to go judge shopping until you find one who likes you.

 

[Unabogie]

What on earth makes you think his story is he was scared when he was at the T?

So you still haven't listened any of his interviews? How embarrassing.

 

[johnny karate]

I don't think it's huge. I think it's desperate. And I don't think Judge Lester is going to grant him a new judge. You don't get to go judge shopping until you find one who likes you.

Here's a tip for all the kids a home: If you don't want your judge to dislike you during your murder trial, try not to pull off some half-assed deception in his court room.

Judges - like most people - don't like it when weaselly people try to con them.

 

[Unabogie]

He agreed the police were going to call him. So maybe if he stood there, they would call him and he could say "I am at 123 RCV". I don't see why this is confusing or worth bolding ?

Because George said he STOPPED on RVC for 84 seconds while STILL ON THE PHONE. And nowhere during that 84 seconds, wherein he claims to be STOPPED on RVC because it was dark and he was scared because his flashlight wasn't working, did he glance up at the house that would surely be in front of him and say "I'm at 2701 RVC. Can you meet me there? I don't want to go back into the dark without a flashlight".

But for 84 seconds he claimed he just stopped there on RVC and discussed other things. Then he hung up. But if you will then argue that maybe he didn't spend that whole time on RVC, you get into the problem that the walk back to the T takes all of ten seconds on the walkthrough. Which means if he tried to really go back to his truck, even waiting 60 seconds while on the phone, he would have been back at his truck before the end of the phone call. It just doesn't work. He says he was stopped there. You think he's lying? If not, why didn't he mention the address in the 84 seconds he stood in front of a house while STILL ON THE PHONE WITH NEN????