Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[TheL8Elvis]

It's like you wouldn't be able to describe where you were without the name of the street.

How about if you go straight past the club house, past the mailboxes and then make a left? I can tell that you are now totally confused and don't have a clue about where I am talking about. Maybe if you stopped rolling your eyes around and actually looked at the world...

Did you not hear him give directions on the NEN call ?

When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse. Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse? Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left.
...
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that's my truck...[unintelligible] Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of? Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.


He then said he still wanted to be able to give them a street address... so that explains why the house number was not sufficient.

You may not believe, but it appears to make sense.

 

[Cylinder]

So he was planning on killing Martin from the outset? Why lie about his ability to identify streets before the shooting?

 

[triforcharity]

No , it doesn't. Not a clue how they compiled the numbers. I think it demonstrates it was a neighborhood in need of a watch program, or those numbers are wrong. GZ wasn't the only person calling things in.

I'd agree that this was a neighborhood in need of neighborhood watch, absolutely.

I would be curious to see what the breakdown of who called how many times.

But, as someone already posted, we know that (at least according to Taffee) GZ did in fact patrol the neighborhood.

 

[Bob001]

So he was planning on killing Martin from the outset? Why lie about his ability to identify streets before the shooting?

I don't think anybody seriously thinks GZ set out to kill anybody. The point here is that, even if he honestly didn't know where he was, he could have just told the police to “meet me at my large truck on the main street of the community,” unless he had already decided to get out of his truck to follow “the suspect.” Maybe he couldn't give an address because he didn't know where he would actually be when the officer arrived.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Yes, I don't use racist language and I find it offensive. By the time I was twenty two I was perfectly clear about the concept.

Actually he didn't use any racist language on MySpace. BTW, was Trayvon Martin Mexican and I missed it?

 

[Unabogie]

I don't think anybody seriously thinks GZ set out to kill anybody. The point here is that, even if he honestly didn't know where he was, he could have just told the police to “meet me at my large truck on the main street of the community,” unless he had already decided to get out of his truck to follow “the suspect.” Maybe he couldn't give an address because he didn't know where he would actually be when the officer arrived.

Right. He had already give an address, which was to the clubhouse. Then he moved, followed Trayvon, and exited his car. After he was asked if he was following (which was because he sounded winded like he was running, which alarmed the dispatcher), he was asked for his address. Then he was asked where he would meet the police, which should have been by his truck. So why look for an address on Retreat View? How in the world would that help the police find his truck on Twin Trees? See how silly that sounds? The clubhouse would be much closer to his truck and he'd already told them that location. There is no reasonable explanation for finding an address on Retreat View. He came up with that excuse because he had to explain why he got out to follow the "suspect" while armed.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Right. He had already give an address, which was to the clubhouse. Then he moved, followed Trayvon, and exited his car. After he was asked if he was following (which was because he sounded winded like he was running, which alarmed the dispatcher), he was asked for his address. Then he was asked where he would meet the police, which should have been by his truck. So why look for an address on Retreat View? How in the world would that help the police find his truck on Twin Trees? See how silly that sounds? The clubhouse would be much closer to his truck and he'd already told them that location. There is no reasonable explanation for finding an address on Retreat View. He came up with that excuse because he had to explain why he got out to follow the "suspect" while armed.

Or if he did follow him he could have said "I followed him and asked him what he was doing here and he attacked me". And his claim of self-defense would have been every bit as legitimate. This repeated claim ad nauseum that GZ is lying because he can't admit to following him is false. GZ can admit to following him and IF the rest of his story is true, STILL have a 100% legitimate claim of self-defense.

 

[crimresearch]

He's a self-racist?

Obviously. And therefore automatically a liar... and that makes him a murderer.

See how easy it can be?

 

[crimresearch]

Yes, it has racist connotations to it. But you don't see ANY grey area? Do you think being a racist is like an on/off switch and you are are or you aren't? Certainly some people are just outright nasty racists but with most people it's a matter of degrees. Have you ever seen studies done on unconscious racial bias? Do you know that even people like you and I who pride ourselves on not being racist usually exhibit "racism"? That for instance if asked to evaluate job candidates we'll think we were unbiased, yet studies show that we'll unconsciously lean towards people with less foreign sounding names, or better looking people etc?

Don't you suppose people say things in frustration based on their life's experiences that are racist in nature but don't make them hard core racists? Can you honestly say you've never said anything when you were 22 years old that could be construed as racist?

Have you ever known anyone that has grown up in a tough or gang infested neighborhood? Never heard them talk that way because they want to better themselves and are frustrated? I've heard black people talk that way about other black people. Are they racists?

I don't think it's as simple as you would make it.

Clearly Chris Rock is one of the biggest racists in the world...

 

[Bob001]

....Or if he did follow him he could have said "I followed him and asked him what he was doing here and he attacked me". And his claim of self-defense would have been every bit as legitimate.....

That's very likely true. But under the pressure of events GZ may have believed that it would look bad to admit following the guy he just shot, and he developed an alternate story about being jumped while he was returning to his truck. It's just hard to believe that TM would jump out of the bushes and attack a stranger who was walking away from him.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

It's just hard to believe that TM would jump out of the bushes and attack a stranger who was walking away from him.

Where are you getting that from?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Where are you getting that from?

http://m.wdbo.com/Player/101425231/
13:30 GZ says TM jumped out from the bushes.

http://cmgdigital.brightcove.com.ed...9001_1699804655001_video-reenactment-0227.mp4
About 9:50 in, GZ says TM yelled from the sidewalk to him.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/06/21/Zimmerman_Written_Statement_.pdf
written statement says 'emerged from the dark'

So somewhat inconsistent, but GZ consistently claims he didn't see TM approaching him, and TM yelled out to him "what the **** is your problem"

 

[Bob001]

Where are you getting that from?

Isn't that GZ's story, that TM confronted and attacked him as he was walking back to his truck?

"The neighborhood-watch volunteer, who weighs more than 200 pounds, said he was walking back to his sport-utility vehicle when Martin approached him from behind. The two exchanged words before the teenager began beating him, he said."

I grant "jumped out of the bushes" might not be literally accurate, but GZ claims that TM came to him as he was walking away.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-of-fight-with-trayvon-martin-questioned.html

 

[Unabogie]

Isn't that GZ's story, that TM confronted and attacked him as he was walking back to his truck?

I grant "jumped out of the bushes" might not be literally accurate, but GZ claims that TM came to him as he was walking away.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-of-fight-with-trayvon-martin-questioned.html

Actually, yes it is. See Elvis above.

 

[marplots]

That's very likely true. But under the pressure of events GZ may have believed that it would look bad to admit following the guy he just shot, and he developed an alternate story about being jumped while he was returning to his truck. It's just hard to believe that TM would jump out of the bushes and attack a stranger who was walking away from him.

I agree. Where I have problems in this thread is that Georgy is at the same time both cunning enough to concoct false justifications but not cunning enough to keep his story consistent. My filter is to assume he's stupider than that. Stupid enough, actually, to not be efficient and to make mistakes that lead to inconsistent behaviors.

I like to view the whole thing through the "wannabe hero" lens. I think George's world has rather more bad guys in it than the real world.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Page 11:Officer Mead saw the flashlight "on" at the intersection

Hope that clears up whether "It's obvious as all get-out it was a 'flash light on a ring.'" or it was actually a flashlight that was "on".

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Unabogie - suppose, for the sake of argument, GZ wanted to get a nearby street address to where he was standing on the phone with NEN. (i.e. Like 123 retreat view circle)

What ways could he accomplish that task ?

 

[crimresearch]

That's very likely true. But under the pressure of events GZ may have believed that it would look bad to admit following the guy he just shot, and he developed an alternate story about being jumped while he was returning to his truck. It's just hard to believe that TM would jump out of the bushes and attack a stranger who was walking away from him.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if GZ went through the 'Oh No!... What do I tell them so they'll believe it was self defense?' phase and blurted out more than one version.

There's a good reason why lawyers tell even totally innocent people not to start talking without a lawyer.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

http://cmgdigital.brightcove.com.edg...tment-0227.mp4
About 9:50 in, GZ says TM yelled from the sidewalk to him.

Thanks, my mistake, I thought that came from initial media leaks and was changed by the actual evidence dump. I have watched the 9:50 in part before but I thought he said as he was walking back that TM approached him from the front side, I now see he said "from behind/to the side of me". My memory isn't perfect, so that probably means I'm guilty .

 

[Unabogie]

Unabogie - suppose, for the sake of argument, GZ wanted to get a nearby street address to where he was standing on the phone with NEN. (i.e. Like 123 retreat view circle)

What ways could he accomplish that task ?

Why would he want that? He was either heading back to his truck or he wasn't. The question from the dispatcher was: where do you want us to meet you? So are you saying he wasn't headed back to his truck after all? And besides, he got out of his car and ran after Trayvon well before he was asked where they should meet. Right? First he got out and chased the "suspect", then they told him to stop, then they asked where they could meet him.

How in that scenario would he need an address on Retreat View?

Also, if they found his flashlight on, how does that square with his story? He said he didn't want to walk back to his car immediately because it was dark and his flashlight wasn't working. Now we find out that it was working after all? Did he lie about that too? Remember, on the NEN call, from the time he claimed he was walking back to his truck to the time the call ended, it took 84 seconds and the walk back is about 10 seconds on the walkthough. When asked about that discrepancy, he said he stopped on Retreat View. Why? He said he was scared because it was dark and his flashlight wouldn't work. That doesn't help George at all, does it?